Response to interpellation 2022/23:179 on cuts in the regions

Statsrådet Acko Ankarberg Johansson (KD)

Madam Speaker! I have been asked in what way I intend to strengthen healthcare resources to prevent major cuts.

It is important to solve the challenges that the health and medical care system has and faces. The deficiencies that the Health and Social Services Inspectorate, IVO, has noted are serious. It must always be possible to trust the welfare, and patient safety must not be compromised.

I have previously answered similar questions and, among other things, noted that the regions' financial results have been very high during recent years and that several regions have been able to strengthen their finances. Even though the high results have partly been due to temporary factors, the cause of the situation in healthcare has therefore not solely been a lack of financial resources. Expanded financial resources are also not the only solution moving forward in the work to strengthen the supply of competence and give the regions good conditions to provide good and patient-safe care. The challenges must be addressed from several different sides.

Sweden is in a challenging economic situation, with a worsening economic climate and high inflation, and the finances of households, companies, and the municipal sector are being pressured hard. In view of the economic situation and the high inflation, the direction of the state budget is slightly contractionary. Fiscal policy needs to be well-balanced to bring down inflation and to manage the economic downturn. In this context, I would however like to emphasize that the government wants to create good and equal economic conditions and prerequisites for municipalities and regions. For 2023, the government has allocated a large part of the reform space to increased state grants for welfare. Since this government took office, a permanent level increase of the general state grants to municipalities and regions of 6 billion kronor has been introduced to strengthen the sector and reduce the risk that high prices lead to cuts in healthcare and other welfare activities.

For me as Minister for Health and Social Affairs, the main focus has also been to initiate the groundwork for the important reforms that are needed for Swedish health and medical care. Therefore, several targeted initiatives are now being implemented which together shall contribute to a healthcare system that is good and equal throughout the country. One example of such a targeted initiative is that the government allocates 2 billion kronor annually during the period to increase the number of healthcare beds.

Another important part of the ongoing work to strengthen healthcare concerns the supply of competence. The working situation for employees within health and medical care needs to be improved. Secure employment, a good working environment, and opportunities for development in the work are central to retaining and attracting competence. This is work that needs to be done locally based on regional conditions. In the agreement with SKR on good and close care, the government allocates approximately 6.4 billion SEK for 2023, of which just over 3 billion SEK is allocated to create good conditions for healthcare workers. The funds shall be used, among other things, to develop conditions in the workplace, train healthcare workers, give more nurses the opportunity to further their education to become specialist nurses, as well as increase the number of places for workplace-based training, VFU.

Competence supply is also an area where the government sees a need to strengthen the national commitment. For that reason, the government has tasked Socialstyrelsen to, together with the National Healthcare Competence Council, develop a proposal for a national plan to improve the competence supply in health and medical care.

Finally, I would like to thank the member for her commitment to this very important issue regarding the conditions for healthcare. I look forward to continued dialogue.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Yasmine Bladelius (S)

Madam Speaker! I thank the Minister for the answer. I had the privilege of working together with her in the Committee on Health and Welfare during the previous parliamentary term. Many are the debates we have had between ourselves regarding the various challenges in health and medical care. In many issues, we have been and are in agreement, not least when it concerns the problem picture. There is a crisis within health and medical care. It is about an extensive staff shortage, many years of underfunding, and a poor working situation that leads to an extensive shortage of beds and thus also deficiencies in patient safety.

The Health and Social Care Inspectorate, Ivo, directs strong criticism at the regions regarding the situation at the country's emergency hospitals. Ivo's report shows that every week, more than half of the inspected hospitals are forced to send people home from the emergency room despite the fact that they needed to be admitted. Examples are presented of how the staff do not have the conditions to provide either medication, food, or drink in a timely manner.

There is a shortage of available healthcare beds in all regions, and Ivo assesses that patient safety simply cannot be guaranteed. All of the country's regions have also announced that they will be forced to make large cuts at the hospitals moving forward and that they see problems with staffing even in the long term.

Acko Ankarberg Johansson and all the parties in the current government promised major reforms and additional funding for Swedish healthcare during the election campaign. The queues were to disappear, and investments in healthcare beds were to be made. Expectations were probably high among many of us that the government would deliver the investments promised before the election. But when the budget was presented, it was clear that Sveriges Kommuner och Regioner would only receive 6 billion in state grants, while 13 billion Swedish kronor went toward lowering taxes for people such as the minister himself and me. This happens despite SKR having been very clear that 20-30 billion would be needed just to maintain today's levels.

Madam Speaker! Now I know that the Minister will say that other funds are being invested in the regions. Assignments are given to the National Board of Health and Welfare and the like, and that is good. But the Minister knows, just as I do, that it is far from enough. When the staff are on their knees, when patients lie for days in the corridor and when people die waiting for care, it is not enough.

Long-term solutions are good. They are needed. But in this acute situation, there are conditions to at least ensure that no cuts are made to already heavily strained hospitals. But that requires political will and economic investments.

For example, in Region Skåne, the political governance, in which the minister's party is included, affects all hospitals, which are already suffering from staff shortages and overcrowding.

What does the Minister think about the fact that many regions are now forced to make large cuts to already heavily burdened hospitals?

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Adrian Magnusson (S)

Madam Speaker! My colleague, Member Bladelius, has creditably accounted for the challenges facing healthcare. At home in Skåne, nearly five years of solid right-wing rule have hit the Skåne healthcare system hard. Funds that have been allocated from the state have been piled high, and the savings requirements have become ever larger and hit ever harder.

It is a truly tragic development where patients in Skåne, not infrequently elderly, are hit hard. Furthermore, it hits hard against the Skåne municipalities, which have to take an ever-increasing responsibility for the care.

I thought I would take the opportunity to highlight the problems in my hometown Ystad. Ystad has an acute hospital that the entire town is very proud of. It is one of the municipality's largest workplaces. Most Ystad residents have a connection to the hospital.

If a resident of Ystad hasn't worked there themselves, then they have an aunt, a great-aunt, a cousin, or a mother who has worked at the hospital. It is primarily women who work in healthcare, and so also in southern Skåne.

Madam Speaker! As late as last week, the hospital's internal budget for 2023 was to be addressed. News arrived then that the deficit amounts to a staggering 155 million kronor. It is hardly believable.

It is not enough with that. The Minister's party colleague, who is the chairman of the hospital board, said: The objective is that the savings requirement should not be noticeable. How a savings requirement of 155 million would not be noticeable is a mystery.

The situation is unfortunately not new, but it has only become worse. I myself sat on the hospital board for the hospital in Ystad during the previous term and can state that the deficits have only grown for every year that has passed.

During 2022, even the medicine department, perhaps the heart of the hospital, was on the verge of being forced to close due to staff shortages. It is a completely unacceptable development of the healthcare in Skåne and the healthcare in southeastern Skåne. The alarm bells should have been ringing at full volume already then. But apparently, that has not happened.

Madam Speaker! South-eastern Skåne is one of the most elderly parts of Skåne in terms of population and perhaps the most elderly. In the summer, the number of inhabitants also multiplies many times over when tourists from all over Sweden and not least from here, Stockholm, visit Ystad and Österlen. Furthermore, tourists from large parts of Europe arrive. The need for healthcare then increases drastically.

Southeastern Skåne needs an acute hospital that the population can rely on. Constant cuts and a development that moves towards the hospital in Ystad primarily becoming a larger health center will not suffice.

In the letters to the editor in Ystads Allehanda today, there is even speculation that the hospital is heading towards a closure. It is a terrifying thought that sends shivers down the spines of all Ystads residents.

Member of Parliament Bladelius asks a highly justified question. I want to take the opportunity to repeat it, because I believe it can elicit an even clearer and more direct answer. In what way does the Minister intend to strengthen healthcare resources to prevent major cuts?

At the same time, I would like to take the opportunity to ask: Will the Minister ensure that the money that was previously allocated for healthcare also goes to healthcare?

(Applause)

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Anna Wallentheim (S)

Madam Speaker! The major cuts that the interpellator highlighted are, of course, not just a problem in Skåne but in all of Sweden. On the other hand, as a resident of Skåne, I see this from close proximity – how the long queues and the significant skills shortage affect me and the people in my local area.

Christmas 2021, the day before Christmas Eve, my father told me that he had found a lump in his neck that was hurting. A few days after New Year's Eve, we were told that he had been diagnosed with cancer. 2022 was therefore a year characterized by chemotherapy, hospital visits, radiation, and so on. We were of course grateful that dad received the help he needed. But quite quickly we also saw what deficiencies existed within the healthcare system.

My father reacted extremely strongly to the chemotherapy. That caused him to spend more time at the hospital than at home. My family and I often experienced that we were still grateful that he was there. There were staff members there who were trained and could take care of him when he got those very dangerous fevers that one can get when having cancer.

My father was broken down by the chemotherapy. It was to such an extent that he ended up in a wheelchair and had very limited mobility. It goes hand in hand with both the disease and the treatment. But we were also made aware that he had fallen between the cracks.

My father lay inside for weeks without receiving the care he was entitled to. It could go weeks without him ever being allowed to get up. He received no rehabilitation training. He was not even allowed to sit up. He was not even given the opportunity to shower.

Finally, my sister snapped and said that it was not acceptable. That was when we found out that he had unfortunately fallen through the cracks, as I mentioned.

We also learned that competent staff with a combined experience of 200 years in healthcare left the hospital in a short period of time. Left alone were newly trained staff who did not receive the help and support they needed to understand how the routines were to be carried out.

I would, however, like to emphasize that many of the staff were, of course, fantastic and extremely knowledgeable in the medical aspects. But they had not been told by competent personnel how they were to handle the routines, that which was the everyday.

The large-scale cuts and the shortage of staff and competence therefore affect not only people's right to safe care but also the working environment for all those who work within healthcare.

One hears at regular intervals about the low wages. But as the Minister, the interpellator, and Member Magnusson have mentioned, it is not only the wage that is the problem. It is the fact that people do not have the opportunity for competence development and continuing education and to be seen. It is problematic schedules, and the work environment is a major problem.

Therefore, my question to the Minister is: How does the government intend to ensure that the quality of the work environment is increased and, above all, ensure that more people choose that career path so that everyone who works in healthcare every day gets more colleagues?

(Applause)

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Statsrådet Acko Ankarberg Johansson (KD)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, the interpellator and other participants in the debate! I am thinking primarily of Member Anna Wallentheim's story. That should be our focus.

That is how it looks in Swedish healthcare. There are many good initiatives and skilled staff who can perform both nursing and medical interventions. At the same time, there are deficiencies. Sometimes there is a lack of continuity, and sometimes there is a lack of rehabilitation. There are also very many who do not even come to the care.

We have both of those parts simultaneously in Swedish healthcare. That is exactly what Anna Wallentheim told about on behalf of her father. That is Swedish healthcare today.

Both the Riksdag's and the government's mandate is to reverse the development. I regret that I have not fixed it in a couple of months. I wish it were possible to fix it so quickly. But if the previous government did not succeed in eight years, how is one to believe that it can be done in a couple, three months?

We need to join forces and ensure that this requires persistence. The first thing is that we must be clear about what the problems are. We have deficiencies in the supply of skills. We have deficiencies in the work environment. In the near term, we must give our employees a receipt that we have seen it and that we are willing to take all the measures that we can.

It is about working conditions. If I have a day off, I should know that I get to keep my day off and won't be called into work. This is a recurring issue for very many employees in healthcare. It is not just about the vacation that I get called in for, but also a regular weekend.

It is about employees who are not given the opportunity for the continuing education or further education they desire in their profession. It is about a health and medical care system that has difficulty getting people to manage working full-time because the job is too heavy. That is perhaps the very closest step. Imagine if we could make it possible for more people to work part-time! I want to say that one has every right to work part-time, and I will not have any opinions on those who do. But if someone does it solely because the job is too heavy, as an employer, one faces a major challenge in reversing that development.

We must enable many, many more to move up to full-time if they so wish. It should not depend on the weight of the work but on having the possibility to do so. If we did that, we would very quickly reverse the development in Swedish health and medical care. Vårdförbundet has shown this when it comes to the midwives. Imagine if all those who work part-time today would move up to full-time. I understand that it will not be like that, but then we would have 970 - or 870, I'm getting a bit unsure - or approximately 900 more full-time positions in Sweden. Quickly, the development is reversed! The same applies to nurses, assistant nurses, doctors and so on, of whom many work part-time.

We therefore have the opportunity to reverse the development, but then the work must take place in the whole country at every workplace. Therefore, the government has clarified the importance of the working environment. This happened, not least, last Thursday, when we decided on both the money for more care places and on the assignment we give to Socialstyrelsen to follow the development and produce a plan for how many care places we should have and ensure a functioning healthcare system in the whole country. The working environment is highlighted there as a way to be able to succeed moving forward.

Let me have the opportunity to comment on a few more of the questions that have been raised here today. Swedish regions had a record surplus in 2020 - approximately 20 billion. An equal or slightly smaller amount was had in surplus in 2021. That was because they were temporary state grants. I understand that they could not use them when they did not know if they would remain. But there is money in the sector. There are 10 billion in the result equalization reserve. One therefore cannot say that it is only money that would be the solution. That is not the case, and there is money to smooth out the economy.

I am still glad that Region Skåne did not put all the money aside. They actually ran a deficit in 2021 as the only region in Sweden, because they used all their money. It was good that they did that. I want the regions to use all their money.

I will return to more of the answers in the next round.

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Yasmine Bladelius (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Minister, for the debate and for the answer!

I have taken note of the government's mandate for a national plan to reduce the shortage of healthcare beds within the healthcare system and think it is a good initiative. It aligns with the work that the previous government started, and I think that is how we should work. It is therefore welcome – absolutely. The question is simply whether it is enough.

In my home municipality of Helsingborg, the local newspaper's letters to the editor page is often filled with stories from relatives who have seen loved ones, often elderly, suffer from lying in the emergency department's corridors for days. And it is probably few who have missed the story about the patient who died in the emergency department in Helsingborg during the Christmas weekend - without anyone noticing.

Helsingborgs lasarett has also reported themselves according to lex Maria to Ivo in several cases as they fear that the high load on the emergency department may have led to a delay in life-saving care, whereupon patients have died. No other hospital in the entire country has had to pay such large sums for overcrowding as Helsingborgs lasarett.

Region Skåne, which is governed by Kristdemokraterna, Moderaterna and Liberalerna with the support of Sverigedemokraterna, has now promised big again: In 2024, care shall be completely queue-free in Skåne. It is a good ambition. The problem is only that the big promises have not been fulfilled.

For the already heavily strained Helsingborg Hospital, it means that 442 million kronor are now missing in the operations. For Ängelholm Hospital, the right-wing government's proposal leads to cuts of 70 nursing assistants or 55 nurses at the hospital. Cuts also await Ystad Hospital when 155 million is missing in the right-wing government's budget.

Many of the initiatives that the Minister raises are good. But it goes without saying that when the regions now make large cuts, the staff will have to run faster. There will be fewer care beds open, and patient safety will not be able to be guaranteed.

Long-term solutions are important to solve the crisis in the long run. But doesn't the Minister still think it is problematic that the regions are cutting back on healthcare in a crisis? And is it justifiable to only invest 6 billion in general government grants in the situation we are currently in? I do not think so.

We Social Democrats would also have liked to see the government take an initiative with larger appropriations - a welfare commission similar to the work that has been done within the framework of the Defense Commission. The questions regarding staffing, the staff's conditions, and the attractiveness of healthcare as a workplace are so large and complex, while at the same time they require participation from both employer organizations and the trade union movement. A solution likely also requires that we review the forms of state funding more long-term.

These are, naturally, challenges that the National Board of Health and Welfare will have difficulty taking responsibility for within the framework of a mandate.

What does the Minister think about our proposal for a welfare commission?

(Applause)

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Adrian Magnusson (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Minister, for the answer! Thanks also to Member Bladelius and to the Minister for this debate!

Healthcare faces great challenges; I believe we can all agree on that. As I have had the opportunity to state here today, this applies in particular to my home municipality, Ystad. It will be a neighborly task for the government to ensure that healthcare gets on the right track and that staff and patients can feel confident in the Skåne healthcare again.

Madam Speaker! I hope that the government does not get stuck on the question of the regions' existence or non-existence. Now it does not sound that way from the Minister, and that is pleasing. It is my hope that the government thinks broadly and is prepared to consider several different proposals. Resources that are to go to healthcare shall also go to healthcare.

The role of staffing companies in healthcare must be reviewed. Furthermore, it is highlighted by the Minister's party colleague back in Ystad as an important part of addressing the shortage at the hospital in Ystad. That is positive.

Powerful measures are also needed to improve the working environment for all healthcare assistants, nursing assistants, and nurses - powerful measures!

At home, I meet many elderly people who are genuinely worried about having to seek healthcare. They know that the staff do everything they can so that they can receive the best possible care. They know that the already overworked healthcare staff, who are predominantly women, do exactly everything so that just they can receive the best possible care. But still, the worry is there, because they know that healthcare in Skåne and in southeastern Skåne is under severe pressure. It should not be so. It should not be so that just the feeling of having to seek care evokes strong anxiety.

Madam Speaker! I hope that the Minister has taken the impression of today's debate and that we will see measures that ensure that healthcare will stop being hit by large cuts. I hope that I can soon read letters to the editor at home in Ystads Allehanda about healthcare functioning without problems and that the emergency hospital in Ystad is flourishing, rather than it being seen as an emergency hospital on its way to closure. The responsibility rests heavily on the Minister's shoulders and on her party comrades at home in Skåne.

(Applause)

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Anna Wallentheim (S)

Madam Speaker! I would like to begin by thanking the Minister for the answers in both the first and the second entries. I also, of course, expect there will be more in the third.

But I must also admit that I am a bit confused. Of course, it sounds good that the government considers that the regions should use their funds and that they should review the working environment. It sounds good that the government has produced a mandate for a national plan and so on.

But the fact is that several parts of the government's policy go somewhat against what is being presented today. I am thinking, among other things, of the proposal that has been put forward regarding adult education and the cuts that have been made. Among other things, during its first period in power, the government has significantly cut back on all vocational training within the education system. They have cut the funding to universities and colleges. They are closing vocational schools for shortage occupations starting from the summer. They are cutting back significantly on komvux and folkbildningen. This will, of course, affect people's opportunities to both train for professions within health and medical care and to make a second career choice.

Overall, this is something that also risks increasing inequality and weakening Sweden's opportunities to compete with knowledge and competence, which will also affect healthcare. We must get more people into healthcare. We cannot just ensure that the work environment is improved; what is needed is, of course, more hands in healthcare.

Therefore, I ask, Madam Speaker, how the Minister views that the proposals presented today should go hand in hand with the cuts that are being made to adult education and other educational initiatives.

(Applause)

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Statsrådet Acko Ankarberg Johansson (KD)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, members Bladelius, Magnusson and Wallentheim, for your contributions and important input! I hope that I will have time to answer as much as possible. I will sharpen myself so that I have time to go through all the parts.

There must never be anyone who feels anxious about seeking care. If you need urgent care, you should immediately go to the emergency room. If it can wait a day or so, you can contact your health center in peace and quiet and, not least, meet a regular doctor contact or care contact, who is someone you recognize. In some other cases, if you have a cold or so, perhaps you should just stay home for a day or go to the pharmacy.

We must have a needs-based healthcare system that focuses on those who have the greatest needs. That is where you and I need to take responsibility, but the one who has the greatest need should never feel anxiety but be able to seek care immediately.

Here, the elderly were just admitted to the emergency room, which is a problematic area. Often, there is not enough medical competence at the specialized housing or in home healthcare, and what remains is to get to the emergency room. But when one arrives there, one is not triaged to red or orange level; that is to say, it is not extremely acute. Then perhaps it is a car accident or a heart attack that needs to go first – and that is how it should be. But still, we have a need for care and medical treatment for the elderly who come in with often quite complex illnesses.

That is where we are not good enough today. The Socialstyrelsen's follow-up shows that it is often these who have to wait the longest in the emergency room. It is not because one discriminates against the elderly, but because one follows the needs.

It shows that we must expand municipal home healthcare and improve elderly care so that we can meet the needs. It could be mobile interventions or pre-hospital interventions - we have quite a lot to do in many areas to be able to provide better care than having to wait at the emergency room, because it is not always the best place for all people.

We therefore have work to do in many areas, also that which Member Wallentheim raises regarding competence supply in the long perspective. You are welcome to have a discussion with the Minister for Education, who is responsible for those parts of these issues.

When it comes to staffing agencies, I am very pleased that the question is being raised by several regional politicians. We have reached an incorrect level when we use staffing agencies constantly instead of during the peaks that can arise occasionally. In that regard, gladly enough regions have joined forces to find another solution, a solution that is now being tested legally and has fallen legally.

In my latest conversation on Thursday with the 21 healthcare directors, I reminded them that if it does not work as they have planned, they are welcome to get back to us, so we can see what the state can contribute. We must find a better arrangement so that we get a more sustainable solution regarding the staffing needs in that regard.

When it comes to the finances of the regions, it is still good that Region Skåne - as the three members have focused on here today, Madam Speaker - did not choose to pile up money. One should, of course, not run a deficit - I know that part of the deficit is due to write-downs on investments and such - but instead of just piling up money, one should ensure that it is used to smooth out the economy in the years ahead. If one has received a huge surplus, one needs to use this in the years ahead in a wise and sustainable way.

It is not that the regions or the municipalities should engage in wealth accumulation. One should use the money one has received and ensure that it remains at a reasonable level.

The government considered that we needed more money and has therefore allocated it, to both municipalities and regions. But what is important for me as Minister for Health and Care is that the money goes to healthcare. I am happy about money that is general, but then a very small part goes to healthcare. Of 6 billion generally, somewhere around 1.6 billion will go to healthcare, because it is to be distributed among the activities.

The Social Democrats are directing criticism here, but the difference between the government's budget and the Social Democrats' budget is 1.3 or 1.4 billion. Such a small amount cannot be the difference between things going well and things going poorly. That question we perhaps need to ponder further together.

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Yasmine Bladelius (S)

Madam Speaker! Once again, thanks to the Minister for an important and good debate!

What the Minister is raising in the rostrum regarding Region Skåne is correct. They have used the money they received from the state side, which is good. Both the Minister and I have requested that they should do so out in the regions. But I also want to clarify for the listeners that year after year in the right-wing-led Region Skåne, they have cut back on the hospitals, despite having received large state grants from the Social Democratic government.

Madam Speaker! It is as clear in this debate as in previous debates that the government is safeguarding the situation within the healthcare system. I believe, however, that many of us would have wished for more.

I want to conclude this debate by briefly recounting a conversation I had a while ago with a nursing assistant at Helsingborg Hospital. She said the following:

I wanted to work in healthcare to help sick fellow human beings, to do everything in my power to care for and heal. But the feeling of not being enough, of never being sufficient, of never having enough time to help, save, heal, and care fully, hangs over me always—every day.

Patients who are left lying in their own feces because I do not have time to change them. Patients who are forgotten, who are left lying in our corridors, who cry out for help, who die because I do not have time to attend to them. Days that pass where I do not have time to eat or even go to the toilet. Patients who cry, who suffer.

I wanted to provide security, and that little extra. But the conditions mean that I simply cannot give as much as I want to. I do not know how much longer I will be able to endure.

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Statsrådet Acko Ankarberg Johansson (KD)

Madam Speaker! I would like to thank the member for raising these questions today, not least the last story, the nursing assistant's own story. What she tells about is what is usually called ethical stress: I know what I want, what I can do and why I am here, and yet I am not given the opportunity to do it. This creates an ethical stress that can significantly deteriorate the work environment and the working conditions. In the long run, it could risk patient safety.

That is why it is so important that when we are to improve for the patients and improve patient safety, we go the way of an improved working environment for the staff. These two things are connected. That is also why the government repeatedly focuses on these parts. When we write down what one receives support for and what we follow up on, it is precisely about the working environment, but not least also about reducing the administrative routines that are not necessary and which often burden the staff when they instead want to care for the patient. This the government repeatedly highlights.

Money is necessary, otherwise we would not have added new money to healthcare in our budget. But what distinguishes the government's budget from the Social Democrats' is therefore 1.4 billion. That it is only 1.4 billion is because you also cut 200 million kronor from the appropriation for public health and healthcare. It is therefore not the case that you have gigantically huge amounts of more money for healthcare. There is a need for more money - but not the very high levels people talk about, because those funds will not go to healthcare.

My mission will be to ensure that healthcare receives the necessary conditions organizationally and in terms of governance, but also financially, so that it can fulfill its mission. I believe that the way forward is through more sustainable state grants that focus less on details and are combined in a slightly different way. It is a task that we have begun to sketch out and which will take some time.

We want to move away from the many detail-oriented state grants that have existed for many years. They have been good initiatives; that is not the point, but they need to be bundled into a few boxes instead, where it is the authorities that distribute them, where we can follow up on them in a different way, and where the detailed requirements are fewer. Then I believe that the regions can also use the money in a better way. That is the path we need to take.

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

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