Response to interpellation 2023/24:290 on the legal certainty for children and young people within Sis

Statsrådet Camilla Waltersson Grönvall (M)

Madam Speaker! Martina Johansson has asked me how I and the government will work to ensure that all crimes committed within Statens institutionsstyrelse, Sis, are reported to the police.

The safety in the activities that Sis conducts is an important issue for the government. Placed children, young people, and adults, as well as staff, shall feel safe when they are at Sis. Gang crime has over time spread to ever younger children and young people, and this is also reflected among those cared for in Sis's activities. More children and young people have connections to different gang constellations compared to before, which leads to more serious threat and violence situations, and employees are often exposed to threats and violence at the institutions. The government has taken several initiatives to give Sis the right tools to handle the situation.

The investigation on improved opportunities to exchange information with law enforcement authorities (Ju 2022:03) has been tasked, among other things, with proposing a new main rule in the secrecy legislation regarding information sharing with law enforcement authorities. In the investigation's final report Increased information flow to law enforcement - A new main rule (SOU 2023:69), it is described how Sis already has the possibility to report crimes based on the Freedom of the Press Act (2009:400) but that the authority experiences difficulties in interpreting and applying existing rules. Many authorities in the investigation's mapping share that view.

Against that background, a new confidentiality-breaking provision in the Public Access to Information and Secrecy Act is proposed, among other things, which gives Sis greater possibilities than in the current situation to report crimes. The proposal implies, among other things, that secrecy shall not prevent Sis from providing information concerning suspicion of a crime committed within the authority's operations to the Police Authority, the Swedish Security Service, or the Swedish Customs Service. The report is being referred for consultation until January 12, 2024.

The government has also taken several measures to strengthen security and safety at Sis. An important part is to ensure that Sis has the right conditions and tools for this. For this purpose, the question of whether Sis needs changed or expanded powers to ensure order and security is currently being investigated, including the possibility of room searches and body searches as well as the possibility to lock the residential rooms in connection with nightly rest and for reasons of order and security. Preparation is also ongoing of proposals on expanded possibilities to limit access to mobile phones.

In the government's budget bill for 2024, a significant increase in Sis's appropriations is also proposed in order to strengthen, among other things, quality of care, competence, safety, security, and capacity at the authority.

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Martina Johansson (C)

Madam Speaker! I thank Minister Camilla Waltersson Grönvall for the answer.

The interpellation is based on the reporting we heard before Christmas that during 2023 there were at least 30 cases of assault within Statens institutionsstyrelse that were not reported. This has thus occurred during the time when the minister has had responsibility for that specific operation.

Social care must be better than the care that a young person is placed in within Sis to get away from, and then violence cannot be a part of everyday life. Regardless of whether the person is at a Sis home or in any other form of activity, there must be zero tolerance for violence. Therefore, a change is required here and now - preferably yesterday!

Madam Speaker! In the Minister's response, she says that it is already possible for, among others, Sis to report crimes but that it is not being done. For me, this therefore becomes a question of clear leadership - of clearly telling one's authorities that they should use the opportunities that already exist today. Even if the opportunities are not completely perfect, there is a space, and we - or rather the young people - cannot wait. Use the space that exists!

The investigation that is currently underway and which is intended to make this clearer can be perceived as something that takes a short time in a government's work, but for the young person who is placed in an institution, it is a long time. We therefore cannot wait for that investigation. Use instead the space that already exists!

With the answer in hand, or rather based on the answer I receive, my question actually becomes even more relevant. The issue is that it is currently possible to report crimes at institutions, but it is not being done. The question then becomes how the Minister ensures that the crimes that may be committed after the investigation has been carried out and a clarification of the assignment has been made are actually reported. They are not being reported today, despite the fact that there is a possibility.

The question is therefore: Will the minister work with this? In what way will the minister follow up on this so that action is taken already now, with the current regulatory framework? How will the minister follow up, in both the short, medium, and long term, to ensure that the change actually occurs so that police reports are started for crimes committed at our institutions?

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Statsrådet Camilla Waltersson Grönvall (M)

Madam Speaker! I thank you for an important and pressing question.

It is naturally of immense importance that we ensure this. It is absolutely crucial that we can strengthen security. If one is in the care of society, one has absolute rights to feel safety and security. It is not just about receiving the care and treatment one has a right to expect, but it is also about a right to feel completely safe.

What we observe is that a number of authorities state that they today cannot provide information on suspicions to the extent they wish, and it concerns significantly more authorities than just Sis. This is the starting point for why we Tidö parties write in the Tidö Agreement that we want a new main rule when it comes to Swedish secrecy. One should simply have an absolute obligation to make reports and pass on information that different types of crimes have been committed, and there must be consequences for failing to do so.

The referral process ended on Friday, which means that a compilation of the various referral responses that have been submitted is currently underway. This is important because it concerns expert authorities and expert organizations which will naturally have different views. The Government sees it as important to incorporate this into the work that is now taking place, and I can assure you that it is being done without delay because this naturally should have been done a long time ago. This is not a problem that has arisen in the last year, but it has existed for a long time.

I can also assure the interpellor that not a day goes by without me, in various contexts, wishing that things had started much earlier, as legislative processes take time. They take time in a democracy, and they must do so to ensure that it is legally secure and safe when we make decisions on new laws. But that being said: Ensuring safety and security for children and young people in society's care is one of the most prioritized issues that I and the government are working on, and this applies to this situation as well.

It is also the background to why so many investigations and legislative processes are currently taking place to strengthen and secure security within, among other things, Sis. That one can today use mobile phones to have contact with criminal networks outside of Sis, to order drugs or to have contact with, for example, sexual offenders, is something that should have been addressed many, many years ago. Now we are working on the issue. The proposals are on the table, and we are working on a referral to the Council on Legislation which will soon be able to be submitted to the Council on Legislation where we ensure that we put a stop to this.

In addition to that, we have commissioned inquiries on how to perform body searches, room searches, and entry controls. I have been making study visits to Sis since 2017 – and I want to emphasize that I was in opposition then – and for those who have done so, it is clear that drugs and weapons are coming in today and that it continues to increase. Therefore, we need to increase security and safety within Sis in many different ways.

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Martina Johansson (C)

Madam Speaker! I thank Camilla Waltersson Grönvall again for the answer.

The situation is incredibly tough in many different areas, and as the minister said, this is not something that has arisen overnight. The situation is difficult for many children and young people who are in - or outside of - the society's care. We cannot change this overnight; I am fully aware of that.

My interpellation concerns the possibility of reporting crimes committed inside institutions to the police. We agree on many of the government's measures, proposals, and investigations, and I look forward to us working together further on all legislative proposals to make them as good as possible. This interpellation, however, concerns what is being done here and now regarding the possibility of reporting to the police.

There are opportunities to file a police report. Not all authorities can do exactly everything one wants, but the government's investigation has stated that it is possible to file a police report even if it is not exactly as one would want it. What I am looking for is how the government acts today to use the space that exists in today's legislation while waiting to be able to do it even better. It should be obvious, and no one should have to hesitate. Here we have been pointed out that the possibility exists. Then the government must ensure that the regulatory framework is used, so that we do not need to wait for a change. We must achieve zero tolerance for children and young people being affected by crimes inside institutions.

For me, it is very much about leadership. There are different types of leadership at the national and local level. As politicians, we have a responsibility to constantly follow up and ask questions to the officials we meet at different levels. We have a responsibility to ensure children's safety, and everything that can be limited should be limited with current legislation.

I do not quite think I received an answer on how the Minister will follow up on this regarding police reports, which is what the interpellation is about. Regardless of whether it concerns current or future rules, the point is that they are followed – that the employees follow the new legislation.

I am also a bit curious as to whether the Minister has any thoughts on how she can keep the Riksdag updated on how the situation is gradually improving. That is what we are doing – we are doing this because we want to improve the situation for all children and young people, regardless of the reasons why they have ended up in society's care. Ideally, they should not even be there, but we must ensure that those who are there are doing well.

Will the minister ensure that all crimes are reported to the police, now and in the future? And how will she keep us in the Riksdag updated to ensure the safety of children and young people?

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Statsrådet Camilla Waltersson Grönvall (M)

Madam Speaker! My answer is crystal clear: Of course, all crimes should be reported to the police.

The investigation states that there are currently great opportunities to report crimes, but also a number of difficulties. This means that today's legislation is not entirely adequate and does not function in a satisfactory way. This is what the current investigation, whose consultation period expired on Friday, aims to ensure. The types of limitations and difficulties that not only Sis points out should not exist, but there should also be a number of other opportunities.

So there are opportunities, and I want to emphasize that they should be used to the full. They do not, however, exist to the extent that would be needed for us to be able to ensure the legal certainty that I and the interpellor are seeking.

In the conversations between us at the ministry and the agency, we will continue to request Sis's view on how legal certainty can be further ensured with the current legislation, in the firm conviction that new legislation will be introduced which will ensure that a new main rule is established in Swedish secrecy legislation.

I also want to take the opportunity to point out that it is important that children and young people are listened to and that one is not reported to the police when one has been subjected to a crime. This is extremely serious, and it naturally risks, in the long run, undermining confidence in the Swedish justice system. It is important for all children, not least for children and young people in social care, who find themselves in a vulnerable and very sensitive situation, to feel that there is safety, that one is taken seriously and that one plays a role and has significance when one has been subjected to a crime. It is important that one does not feel hidden away or pushed aside or feel that one has less significance.

It is important to be able to say that we are now also working to ensure that children and young people, for example within Sis, shall be given the opportunity to contact an independent complaints function, which will be important in this regard. It will be placed centrally within the authority and shall be in place during the month of February. The Government is doing this now and will follow it very closely. This is about fundamental rights and is of utmost importance so that everyone cared for within Sis shall feel safe and free to express criticism when they have such.

I want to repeat that this is a very high-priority issue for me and for the government. Regarding what Martina Johansson said about keeping the Riksdag updated, I have at every occasion hurried to the Riksdag when the committees have called me and asked for an update. I will, of course, also continue to gladly come to those committees that wish to hear how we are working further to strengthen the safety and security of children and young people.

I also expect, in accordance with the fine meeting that all eight parliamentary parties had during the morning following my invitation to the Ministry of Social Affairs, that the constructive spirit that has characterized my time in the Committee on Social Affairs and which characterized this morning's meeting also continues to characterize our cooperation.

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Martina Johansson (C)

Madam Speaker! I thank Camilla Waltersson Grönvall for her committed work and for her committed efforts in these matters. I share the Minister's commitment to our children and young people. It is a matter of us finding ways forward.

I like constructive work. One of the reasons why I choose to participate in an interpellation debate is that I can delve into one of incredibly many issues in order to constantly move the questions forward.

It felt good to hear the minister say that the opportunities that exist should be used, but how does the minister ensure this? According to the reporting, people do not report what exists today.

It is very good to have many initiatives. I like the work ensuring that children and young people have an independent complainant. We must listen to children and young people. My other priority in this assignment is that children should be heard. They have the right to be heard. Regardless of whether it concerns the Social Services' investigations in these matters or the Family Law's investigations regarding custody disputes, we must strengthen children's rights.

It is a matter of being clear towards Socialstyrelsen or another appropriate authority. How do we develop the right methods to avoid this type of crime? One thing is legislation and banning mobile phones, but it is also about method development to meet children and young people in their frustration. It can happen that they resort to violence instead of words, so the methods also need to be developed.

I would like to thank you for a constructive conversation here and for the conversation this morning. I believe we can move the issues forward, even if we are not always in complete agreement on which end we should start from.

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Statsrådet Camilla Waltersson Grönvall (M)

Madam Speaker! Many thanks to Martina Johansson for, as always, being constructively proactive and having a will to improve the situation for children and young people! We also have a number of years behind us where we have worked together in the parliamentary committees, and these years have shown a constructive will from both sides to develop things further and not give up until children and young people get a better situation.

The starting point for my entire assignment is that I must not give up but prioritize this issue, because many areas concerning specifically vulnerable children and young people have been sidelined for far too long and by far too many governments. Therefore, I am happy and proud to sit in a government that actively highlights the conditions of these children and young people. It is obviously completely unacceptable that the rule of law for children and young people in social care is not upheld, and I therefore reacted strongly when I took on the assignment.

The government has in another way tightened its grip on the various agency dialogues we have with the authorities, and I experience these agency dialogues as constructive. But we are constantly pushing to ensure that the relevant authority has the right tools, which it has not had, and that there is the right legislation to work with. All of this aims to ensure that children and young people receive the care and treatment they are entitled to and that there is safe and secure care for everyone.

Once again, a big thank you for the interpellation debate!

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

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