Response to interpellation 2023/24:415 on the state's governance of SJ AB
Translated from Swedish by AI; the translation may contain errors. The Swedish text is the original.
Summary AI, written in advance
I consider that the board and management of SJ AB are responsible for the company's organization and operational activities 1. I believe that SJ bears a great responsibility for the recent problems with cancelled trains, but that Trafikverket is also responsible for infrastructure and weather-related challenges 1. I emphasize that the state as the owner follows up on the company through ownership dialogues and that SJ is now making large investments in vehicles 1 2. I underline that maintenance of the railway is a priority issue for the government 3. I consider that state-owned companies should manage taxpayers' money in the best possible way and that investments should be socially and economically profitable 3. I believe that costly high-speed railways were discontinued because the money was not used in the best way 3. I emphasize that SJ is a company in a deregulated market and that in dialogues with the company, clear demands are made for improved punctuality 3. I underline that future infrastructure investments should be socially and economically profitable and not be placed on extremely expensive projects that are not profitable 4.
Written by AI in advance and may contain errors. The numbers lead to the speech a statement builds on; check against the text below.
Finansministern Elisabeth Svantesson (M)
Madam Speaker! Isak From has asked me two questions. The first question is how I ensure the state's governance of SJ so that SJ fulfills the transport policy goals and thereby contributes to a long-term sustainable transport supply throughout the country. The second question is whether I consider the large number of cancelled trains to be compatible with the state's ownership policy and corporate governance model and, if not, whether I intend to take any measures within my area of responsibility.
It is the company's board and management that are responsible for the company's organization and the management of its affairs, as well as the ongoing management of the company's operational activities. Furthermore, companies with state ownership shall, according to the state's ownership policy, act in such a way that they enjoy public trust. The board is responsible for ensuring that SJ AB is managed in an exemplary manner within the framework of the legislation, the company's articles of association, and the state's ownership policy. I assume that this is followed.
SJ AB operates extensive rail traffic in Sweden with a large geographical spread and contributes through its operations to fulfilling the transport policy goals. The company has no public service mandate decided by the Riksdag but shall conduct its operations within the framework of business viability.
Questions regarding SJ AB's operational activities and measures to ensure orderly traffic of high quality are operational matters and are thus for SJ AB's management and board to handle. The company bears a large part of the responsibility for the recent problems regarding the traffic supply and cancelled departures that affected passengers, while the more difficult weather conditions during the winter have brought challenges that are difficult to plan for and manage for all actors.
Trafikverket also bears a responsibility as an infrastructure holder, as frozen switches and challenges related to snow removal lead to problems on the railway. A lack of wildlife fencing has also resulted in many wildlife accidents with vehicle damage and cancelled trains as a consequence.
As owners, we are closely following how the company intends to solve the problems that have affected the passengers over the past few months. The company has so far announced that intensive work is underway to rectify the vehicle shortage that has arisen as a result of the severe winter with persistent cold across the entire country.
The State as owner regularly meets the company in so-called owner dialogues where, among other things, current issues of a significant nature are discussed and follow-up takes place. A central part of these dialogues has been and will continue to be to clearly follow up on how the company handles the challenges it faces and that SJ AB becomes better at delivering traffic of good quality.
In previous owner dialogues, topics have included, among others, locomotive driver shortages and punctuality challenges. Here, the company's measures have consisted of starting a locomotive driver school under its own management, which today means that the availability of locomotive drivers corresponds to the need, and initiating extensive analytical work to find measures that in the future can result in a reduction of the company's share of the delays affecting passengers.
Isak From (S)
Mr. Speaker! Thank you, Minister for Finance, for the answer!
Demand for trains is great, Finance Minister. Demand for trains on time is probably just as great. Everyone is almost in agreement that punctuality is the biggest challenge for the railway and for those who operate on the Swedish railway, including SJ, which is the state's own company. Regardless of the train company, there are very many trains that stand still on the state's railways.
SVT reviewed the situation last year. On some train sections, the trains stood still for an average of 9,800 minutes during the last year. That does not include 2024, just as the Finance Minister highlighted, with cold, rain, and snow during one and the same week. SVT's review also shows an average of 30 minutes of delay per journey. This year does not look any better. Now, almost two months have passed. But there has been nothing for the train companies to boast about.
It is exactly as the Minister for Finance reported, the company and the company's board and management are responsible for the company's organization and the management of its affairs, but so is the state. When the state is the owner, the state has an extensive responsibility.
Is it the Finance Minister's intention that the extremely large proportion of delayed SJ trains is exemplary? It states on the government's website that the state-owned companies shall act exemplarily and enjoy public trust. Is it the Finance Minister's intention that SJ, with all the cancelled trains and delayed trains, is an example? It is hardly exemplary.
The Minister for Finance describes that SJ AB operates extensive rail traffic throughout the country with a large geographical spread. According to the articles of association, SJ shall operate passenger transport within the framework of business viability and contribute to fulfilling the transport policy goals and thus a long-term sustainable transport supply throughout the country.
Mr. Speaker! It can hardly be that we can consider the transport policy goals to be fulfilled. It can hardly be that anyone considers all the cancelled trains and all the delayed SJ trains to be an example.
Monica Haider (S)
Mr. Speaker! Thank you for an important interpellation, Isak From, and thank you for the answer, the Minister for Finance!
I am one of all those who, during the winter, have been affected by a lot of train delays and cancelled trains. The morning train departing at 6.28 from Alvesta has been cancelled all this year. If you go in and look in the app, you see that it also applies to the whole of March, i.e., for three months.
If you go in and look at the app from April 1st onwards, you can read that planning is underway. We'll have to see if the train even comes back. That means I will either have to travel the day before in the evening or take the 5.33 from Alvesta. It is very early, but it absolutely works. I will get here.
The Minister for Finance says in his response that the company bears a large part of the responsibility, that there have been difficult weather conditions and so on. At the same time, it is no surprise that we have winter in Sweden. It is not the first winter. It is also no surprise that enough trains were needed.
The risk is that people stop taking the train because it cannot be trusted that you will arrive when you need to arrive. The delays over the last few months have been very frequent and long, which means that you do not know when you will arrive. At that point, I don't even count 10-15 minutes as delays anymore. Passengers have started flying instead. Now, even SJ has offered to buy back our annual passes because the trains are running so poorly.
My question to the Minister for Finance is: What can the government do so that SJ can resolve the problems?
Finansministern Elisabeth Svantesson (M)
Mr. Speaker! Thank you, Isak From, for the interpellation! It is truly an issue that affects at least many in Sweden.
Sweden is an elongated country where it is enormously important that transport systems and infrastructure function. This applies to everything from being able to get to work to goods being transported and many other parts that make it necessary for us to travel and move around.
I truly share the view of the problem that train traffic has not functioned in Sweden for a long time, and I also share the frustration over this. Even I, Mr. Speaker, have commuted a lot by train for many years. They have often been on time but also very often not on time, and sometimes there have also been cancelled trains. It creates frustration and sometimes also a quite large cold and a bit of other things when one stands and freezes on the platform.
I still believe that in such a discussion and debate, it is important to look at what the problem is. As I mentioned, there are great challenges with SJ, which I will soon touch upon, but the first and most important thing is that we have years of neglected maintenance on the Swedish railway. It is obvious and clear that much more should have been done over several decades so that the trains arrive on time and so that our rails, our tracks, and our main lines function.
Now it is we who have the responsibility, as I usually say, and we will take this responsibility. We will present an infrastructure bill this autumn. But just to have it said: The need for maintenance is truly enormous.
When we look ahead to the infrastructure bill that will be submitted later, it will be important for us to see what constitutes regional commuting and freight and how we can improve and get more out of the tax money that we invest in infrastructure projects. It is a very large amount.
Sometimes in the debate it sounds as if Sweden has not invested in infrastructure over the years, but different governments have done so. It is important to continue with that. Maintenance is, of course, an important part. The other part I was touching upon is also important, namely that Trafikverket must also do its job so that it is possible to run trains.
Finally, SJ has a very large responsibility, which the interpellation is about. SJ is a company in a competitive market, but they are large. They have had major problems with punctuality, sometimes depending on things that they absolutely cannot control themselves. As those of us who have traveled by train well know, accidents happen, and problems can arise. Winter comes every year, as another member just said, but despite that, the switches sometimes cannot handle this, which can be incomprehensible. Just this might not be SJ's fault, but other parts of the state or others may need to do more about this.
Where do I want to get to then? What the interpellation is about is ownership management. Member From can be very secure in that punctuality is one of the most important issues in the ownership dialogues that we have with SJ. Just as the interpellor touched upon, it is about trust in the company and for the transport system in Sweden. The State has a great responsibility, and we shall continue to take this responsibility.
I still see signs of clear improvements regarding SJ. They are now making the largest investments in vehicle investments in the company's history. They have signed an agreement for the purchase of two new vehicle fleets. This is good. They also have new workshops in the works. This is positive and bodes well for the future.
With this said, we will in our owner dialogues continue to shed light on this issue, for it is not exemplary that so many trains do not arrive on time.
Isak From (S)
Mr. Speaker! Thank you, Minister for Finance, for the clarification at the end that it is not a precedent!
In the initial response, the Minister for Finance said that the company bears a large part of the responsibility for the problems of recent times, and it is clear that it partly is so. From the speaker's chair, the Minister for Finance also said that the responsibility also lies with others. In that case, it is good that we have the Minister for Finance here, because she is responsible for the budget bill that is presented here in the chamber. It is clear that the budget bill that the Minister for Finance has presented worsens the conditions for Trafikverket to maintain the maintenance.
Since then, Mr. Speaker, the Tidö parties have voted no to our Social Democratic proposal to take back the maintenance under state management, as it is evident that many of the private actors have not fulfilled the assignments they have contracted to perform.
It concerns in particular all the switches that Trafikverket has determined should have been replaced a long time ago but which have not been replaced. It is a significant part of why all trains, regardless of operator, have difficulty navigating the Swedish railway.
As several have pointed out, we have winter in Sweden. We have had winter all the way down into Skåne this year. It is recurring that it sometimes becomes winter, and one needs to be prepared for this. In Västerbotten, we went from 38 minus degrees to wet snow and then 6 plus degrees in two to three days, and it is clear that these three different weather factors cause problems for traffic. Nevertheless, this cannot be news.
What is new is that SJ has stated that they are unable to maintain the timetable. Just as Member Monica Haider so profitably pointed out here, they are now canceling departures entirely and referring passengers to other modes of transport.
It is clear that such a situation sends a signal that we do not trust that the railway can actually transport us. This is fully understandable when, for example, Stockholm-Malmö last year showed almost 10,000 minutes of delays, just over 30 minutes late per departure, and that during this year it has been concluded that many departures are cancelled entirely.
It cannot in any way be that neither Trafikverket nor state-owned SJ are meeting the state's set transport goals, which are on the government's website. The Minister for Finance has a responsibility for both issues. We need to strengthen the conditions for the railway. The company SJ must perform better. Statens järnvägar, SJ, is our joint company. The Minister for Finance has the responsibility.
Monica Haider (S)
Mr. Speaker! Thank you for the answer, Minister for Finance! No, it is really no precedent.
The Minister for Finance states in his answer that SJ has initiated extensive analytical work to find measures. That is very good; they really need to do that. The question, however, is what has changed in recent months. I have traveled by train to Stockholm since 2014, and during all these years I have never experienced the same thing that has happened in recent months. There must be something that SJ has done differently this year that they have not done before. There have been delays, but not in the way it has been in recent months. What is it that has actually happened?
There have actually been several difficult winters since 2014, and the state has a responsibility here. I am well aware that we have a maintenance debt for the railway, but it cannot just be because of that. Both I and the Minister for Finance, I believe, actually want to continue to travel by train.
Finansministern Elisabeth Svantesson (M)
Mr. Speaker! I thank you for the questions. I have a few brief words to say.
I believe that I have answered the member's questions specifically both in the written response and in my previous post. I just want to add that it is, of course, a priority for the government to improve the transport infrastructure we have. We need to repair, we need to maintain, and we also need, in some cases, to build new.
What is important for us is that it is socio-economically profitable, that we manage the taxpayers' money in the best possible way, and that we see that it actually leads to improved commuting and improved freight traffic and other things that are important for Sweden to grow and for growth to become greater. That was why we discontinued the work on the costly project with high-speed railways – we saw that the money was not being used in the best way there.
The Government has tasked Trafikverket with reporting measures to strengthen railway maintenance and implementing these so that both robustness, reliability, and punctuality can be improved. It is important that Trafikverket also carries out that analysis properly.
We want Sweden to gradually obtain a much better infrastructure that is both robust and more reliable. As I have said before, the Swedish infrastructure and transport system has an enormous maintenance debt.
This debate, however, is about the state as the owner of SJ. As said, it is of particular importance that state-owned companies, companies owned by us collectively, act in such a way that they can enjoy public trust. Something we also constantly bring up for discussion with SJ in our ownership dialogues is how to improve punctuality, which is one of the absolutely most important parts for the company.
But it is still important to remember, Mr. Speaker, that this is not an authority but a company that exists in a deregulated market in competition with other train operators. It is important because we manage the company in the way that the Riksdag has decided companies should be managed: We have a board, and we have a management that handles the operational, simply the ongoing management of the business.
It does not mean that we are backing down and not taking the responsibility to have a high and clear expectation of SJ. SJ is one of the most important companies for the Swedish people, and it must now handle the current problems. Therefore, in every dialogue going forward, we will be very clear about precisely those questions that we are talking about now and which I am also pleased that Member From has raised.
I can assure Isak From and those listening to the debate that we continue to follow the developments very closely. We also set clear demands for change and improvement. Everyone needs to do their part, Mr. Speaker, and more trains need to arrive on time.
Isak From (S)
Mr. Speaker! The Minister for Finance says that we have had a very large maintenance debt for a long time. Was that why this government base lowered the appropriation for railway maintenance?
On the government's website, it is stated that the overall goal of transport policy is to ensure a socio-economically efficient and long-term sustainable transport supply for the citizens and the business community throughout the country. Now that we have the Minister for Finance here, she can also comment on the fact that very many private individuals are affected financially by not making it to work on time. Also, many companies are affected when employees do not arrive at work on time. It cannot in any way be socio-economically profitable at all.
No, Mr. Speaker, this simply does not hold. There can be no one who considers, when it comes to the railway and SJ, that all cancelled trains are anything socio-economically efficient or long-term sustainable.
If one does not get to work, does not arrive on time, does not trust the railway and does not trust SJ, one chooses other transport solutions, which in the long run affects the entire society. That, Mr. Speaker, is now in the Finance Minister's lap.
Finansministern Elisabeth Svantesson (M)
Mr. Speaker! I thank you for the debate.
If one had listened to what I said, one would have heard that it is important for us that the future infrastructure investments shall be socio-economically profitable. One should not put all the money into one basket for an extremely expensive project, Mr. Speaker, which would not be socio-economically profitable. For several years, this was done and at the same time, far too little was done to ensure that regional commuting around Sweden functioned. That was my point regarding socio-economic profitability. We may have to return to that.
The interpellation, however, was about SJ. I can again attest that in our dialogues with SJ, we have high expectations, just as the Swedish people do, that the trains will run on time.
Source: The Swedish Parliament. The speeches come from the open data of the Riksdag, translated into English by AI, which may contain errors.