Response to interpellation 2023/24:441 on improved public health through the protection of children from violence pornography

Kulturministern Parisa Liljestrand (M)

Madam Speaker! Åsa Eriksson has asked the Minister for Social Affairs what initiatives he intends to take to protect children and young people from being sexually abused and to thereby improve public health.

The work within the government is distributed in such a way that it is I who shall answer the interpellation.

Issues concerning children fall under several ministers, and within my area of responsibility lie measures against harmful media influence.

The Media Authority has, according to its instruction, to work to strengthen children and young people as conscious media users and to work to protect children from harmful media influence.

In the Radio and Television Act, there are rules regarding the protection of children. Programs with detailed depictions of violence of a realistic nature or with pornographic images may not be broadcast on television during such time and in such a way that there is a significant risk that children can see the programs. For pay-TV and video-sharing platforms, corresponding requirements exist. Providers of TV and pay-TV shall also provide a warning before such content occurs.

The EU's regulation on a single market for digital services, the so-called DSA Regulation, is now fully applicable. The regulation contains, among other things, rules on the handling of illegal content. It also contains requirements that certain platforms, for example video-sharing platforms, shall introduce measures to ensure a high level of privacy, security, and safety for minors. Regarding this requirement, the Swedish Media Council is the competent supervisory authority.

In addition to these requirements, the very large platform companies shall assess the risks their activities entail based on a number of different aspects, one of which is precisely negative effects for minors. They shall then take measures to reduce the risks that have been identified. This can involve introducing age or parental controls and tools to help minors report abuse.

When it comes to improving public health, especially among children and young people, there are several ongoing initiatives. The Public Health Agency, for example, has an ongoing assignment to, together with the Medical Products Agency, produce a knowledge synthesis on the connection between digital media use and effects on physical and mental health as well as cognitive development among children and young people. Based on the knowledge synthesis and the state of research, the Public Health Agency shall subsequently produce and disseminate age-appropriate guidance and recommendations for digital media use among children and young people in the age group 0-18 years.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Åsa Eriksson (S)

Madam Speaker! I want to begin by apologizing for the language that I will now be forced to use to describe the everyday life that many of our boys and girls experience.

The vast majority of children and young people today have access to the internet, where pornography exists without protective mechanisms. It concerns small children who happen to end up on a site with torture porn when they are actually looking for something else, but of course also concerns young people who actively seek out those types of sites out of pure curiosity. It also concerns all the girls and boys who are subjected to attitudes, actions, and abuses by young people, usually boys who have been porn-damaged.

Madam Speaker! Porn is not sex. The violent, degrading porn shows filmed gang rapes, gross sexual assaults and humiliation of women - the total opposite of equality and the equal value of all people, which we strive for.

In the most streamed movies on Pornhub, which is the world's largest provider of porn, the most common scenes are women being strangled so that they lose their breath and men pushing their penises so far down into the women's throats that they are almost suffocated. That is the most popular thing to watch on Pornhub.

Madam Speaker! It is this type of film that our children encounter on their mobiles, on tablets, and on computers. It is the type of scenes that today, unfortunately, shapes many young people's image of what sex and relationships between men and women are. The scope and spread of commercial pornography has increased avalanche-like in recent decades, and at the same time, the pornography has become increasingly violent and degrading. Research and scientific studies on pornography show that it constitutes a catalyst and inspiration for men's sexual aggressions.

Madam Speaker! The Minister for Culture said in his answer just now that the EU's DSA Regulation contains rules on the handling of illegal content and the protection of minors. That is good, but does the Minister for Culture mean that filmed gang rapes are then illegal content and should be prohibited?

Children and young people shall, according to the Radio and Television Act, not be exposed to that type of torture porn. This in itself is good, even though very few children and young people watch linear TV today. Does this mean that the government intends to act so that children and young people do not have to be exposed to that type of harmful content on their mobiles and on their computers?

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Leonid Yurkovskiy (SD)

Madam Speaker! I thank you for an important question.

In addition to what the interpellator presented regarding pornography's role as a catalyst for violence, there is a very problematic psychological aspect regarding children as the target group, and that is that pornography distorts and shapes sexual preferences over time, which children and young people unfortunately seem to be particularly susceptible to.

In practical terms, this means that the type of pornographic content consumed at one occasion stops engaging in favor of something new, often more extreme, content. Doctors testify that it is no longer particularly unusual for teenagers and young adults to have erection problems during intercourse, without any underlying physiological ill health. This means that the sex organ functions but only in combination with pornography, not really sex. This borders on dystopia, if you ask me.

It is therefore about both sexual health and mental well-being, and pornography thus becomes a public health issue. The positive thing is that one can expect that the absolute majority of the parties in the Riksdag agree on the problems we are talking about here today. The question, as I see it, is rather what the limitations of politics will be in this case. This brings us over to the negative, namely the accessibility of pornography.

There is enormous money in this market, on several levels, and the actors obviously have an interest in pornography being easily accessible. However bad the content may be, it is difficult to prove that something would be illegal. We must also grapple with the fact that any potential restriction of access to pornography based on age group is very difficult to implement and could entail unwanted consequences for freedom and privacy on the internet.

My reflection is thus that cooperation is required where parents have the ultimate responsibility to protect their children with technological solutions and where search engine operators and telecom companies shall make it harder to, at least unintentionally, encounter pornography on the internet, which happens to some children.

The question in the interpellation is what initiative the Minister intends to take to protect children from violence pornography. But against the background of what I just mentioned, I think it would be very interesting if the Minister could share his reflections on what possibilities exist at all and the role of politics in these kinds of issues generally.

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Helena Vilhelmsson (C)

Madam Speaker! I thank the interpellor for an incredibly important interpellation. I also thank the Minister for Culture for that we have the opportunity to have this discussion.

The interpellor submitted the interpellation to another minister. It lies in the complexity of the question who owns the question. The interpellation could have been submitted to the Minister for Social Affairs, to the Minister for Justice, or to the Minister for Culture, where it landed. This is an issue that spans so many areas, which also makes it extremely difficult. But that does not mean we are allowed to back down. This is, in fact, one of our time's greatest health issues - health problems, I would like to say.

We are probably relatively in agreement that violent pornography is harmful to our growing generation. It creates major problems in the view of love and relationships and when it comes to actually having a functioning sex life. It is even addictive. In different regions, there is a discussion on whether this should be a defined addiction or not and whether one should actually be able to get support for this, just as for gambling addiction and other things.

The Government refers to the Radio and Television Act. It is actually the only answer one gets. This is not a new issue. Members from all parties, I would like to say, have submitted motions on this issue for many years. It always ends up in the Committee on the Constitution because it concerns freedom of speech legislation and freedom of the press legislation, which makes it extremely difficult. We also see in the answer that reference is made to the Radio and Television Act.

But we must realize that if the internet had been invented today, it would naturally have come with restrictions, because it is not the intention that violent pornography should be as accessible as it is today.

It is interesting that the Minister for Culture mentions what the interpellator said about the directive. It is mentioned in the response that very large platform companies have a special responsibility. I look forward to the Minister for Culture being able to elaborate on this a little bit. Which large platform companies is it about, how large, and in what way? They can, for example, carry out age or parental controls, which is very positive. I was actually very pleased when I read that. If it is something that we have discussed, it is, for example, age verification. But we are constantly met with the fact that it is not possible, that it is not technically feasible and so on, even though we know that many countries are trying with such legislation. I realize that it is difficult. But that does not mean that we should stop trying to address this problem.

I would like to hear what requirements the government is prepared to impose on the market. The best thing, naturally, would be self-regulation, but that is not the case. And we cannot let the market take its responsibility for as long as it actually does not do so. Is there a possibility of imposing requirements on the internet providers, the large companies that actually provide this, and that they perhaps put on a filter – opt-in, opt-out – and that when one buys or uses programs, one actively gets to remove the filters instead of the opposite of what it is today?

We must remember that privacy is of course important. But privacy for whom? Is it for the adults who are watching? Is it for the children who are not doing well? Or is it for the children and women who are often exposed and who are victims in this production?

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Kulturministern Parisa Liljestrand (M)

Madam Speaker! When one hears the members' contributions, it is quite obvious that this is a difficult question in many ways. It is difficult from a legislative standpoint, and it is difficult because it extends across many areas of responsibility within the government's areas of responsibility and within the Government Offices, but also within society. With whom does the responsibility actually lie? It is a question where one can answer with no one or with everyone. For my part, I base it on the latter. This is something that we need to take collective responsibility for. We need to take a collective responsibility, both within the framework of politics, naturally, and in society.

I will start just in society. I believe it is important that we also understand that it is clear that one can limit access and responsibility via regulations and requirements. But I also believe that we on a general level need to become better in society on several levels. We need to become better at talking, educating, informing and not least enabling for adult society to have these conversations with our children and young people and reach a common discussion together. Somewhere it is also about values. If we cannot limit everything that our children and young people see, which I believe is an impossibility in the digital world that we live in today, we must at least enable for the conversations to take place regarding what it is that one sees, what it means and what values we want our children and young people to carry with them.

It is clear that politics has a responsibility in this. The DSA regulation is an example where we have taken this responsibility. I received a question about whether I could specify which platforms it concerns. There are specific requirements for risk assessments and for extended risk assessments when it concerns the very large online platforms. There is a limitation in this which says that if one has more than 45 million active users per month, one must also be able to fulfill these specific requirements for risk assessments. Naturally, a number of the large online platforms fall under this. They must also be able to identify risks for illegal content and also gender-based violence, and it must be linked to mental and physical well-being. If a risk exists, the platform is obliged to take action. If one does not do that, one can be fined. There are, therefore, consequences.

I realize that my speaking time is almost over. It is fortunate that I have one more contribution to make because there is much to say about this. But when it comes to the government's work, this extends across many of the different departments, and work is being carried out within a number of different departments. In addition to my responsibility and the responsibility that the Media Authority has to follow up on this, it is also about the fact that we have ongoing work within the framework of the Ministry of Health and Social Affairs, the Ministry of Employment - it is then the Minister for Equality who has a large task linked to this - and also the Ministry of Education, which has given a mandate to the National Agency for Education to follow up on this regarding children and young people. But I hope to return to this in my next contribution.

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Åsa Eriksson (S)

Madam Speaker! I thank the Minister for the answer. I am pleased that the Minister shares the description of the problem. But I did not hear a single measure that the Minister himself intends to take. I hope that it will be in the next contribution.

I agree that this is a societal problem and that we need to increase knowledge and increase information. That is why we Social Democrats, when we held government power, introduced this into the curriculum so that it becomes clearer that one must read about pornography and its consequences already in primary school and also in teacher training. We have, therefore, begun the work. But it is not enough, because children and young people are naturally curious. That is good. And one is mostly curious about that which is a bit forbidden, that is to say, sex.

We have many – school counselors, school nurses and others – who testify that today it is torture porn on Pornhub that is the children's primary sexual education. It is completely insane.

I am going to read the book Porrsnacket: en handbok för föräldrar. Among the saddest things I know is when I meet boys who have exploited their six-year-old sister and do not understand that it is wrong, says a psychologist at the boys' clinic. Porn has normalized abuse and shaped the boys' patterns of arousal.

This is insane, and we have a responsibility to put a stop to it. Therefore, I want to know what the minister intends to do within the scope of their duties.

Madam Speaker! We are in complete agreement that we must prevent men's and boys' violence against women, but it is futile if we simultaneously allow torture porn to run rampant in children's mobiles and computers. How is a twelve-year-old supposed to relate to the message that real men want to spit on and choke women and call women bitches? This is what our children encounter on the internet today. This is a major societal problem when it comes to our children's future and their right to a world free from violence and oppression.

Madam Speaker! As has been said, many testify that the tone in the language and the attitude towards girls becomes more degrading when primarily boys, but also girls, consume pornography to a large extent. More and more girls seek help at youth centers for pains and injuries that have occurred in connection with violent sex, which they believe is normal sex.

I also become very sad when I hear that young boys ask if one can go on a date with a girl alone or if one must be several. They have, in fact, been given the impression that it must always be group sex. We must give our children a different view of sex and relationships. They must get to discover it themselves, a bit clumsily and curiously.

Sweden has for many years worked successfully against prostitution, the purchase of sexual services, and the exploitation of people. We are proud of the work that has been carried out, but there is much left to do. Assault, torture, and humiliation in connection with sex is prohibited and must be reported to the police. That is, of course, completely correct. How can it then be the case that exactly the same thing can be called porn just by turning on a camera and filming it, and that it is therefore completely legal to both perform and distribute? We legislators and the government must take responsibility for ensuring that young and old women and men are protected from this even online.

Again: Will the Minister for Culture take the initiative to make it more difficult for minors to be subjected to filmed abuse?

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Leonid Yurkovskiy (SD)

Madam Speaker! I thank you for all the contributions. This is an unpleasant subject in many ways. Given its total volume and how much of the content is completely free, pornography is actually more accessible than children's programs.

In February 2020, the Children's Ombudsman was commissioned by the previous government to carry out a mapping of the knowledge regarding the impact of pornography on children and young people, and in the mapping, research is compiled which unfortunately confirms many of the concerns we are talking about, including the aspect of violence.

It also appears that most young people are exposed to pornography through intentional searching, even if some encounter it unintentionally. This suggests that one cannot quite achieve completely effective public health measures by only reducing unintentional exposure through simpler filters and digital walls. Thus, the question remains: What can and should policy do? That was somewhat what I was getting at in my first speech. It would be interesting to hear the Minister's views on this.

When it comes to, for example, BankID, which we have heard about, I do not believe that it would be a possible way forward. First and foremost, it would restrict people's privacy and anonymity on the internet, but then one must also realize that the actors behind the porn industry are probably not particularly keen on limiting their offerings in that way.

Another problem, which is admittedly presented through anecdotal evidence, is that organizations that receive state grants or state funding are out in schools and speak about pornography consumption in neutral or positive terms, for example that it would be a natural part of sexuality or that it is okay to watch as long as the participants consent. I think this should be followed up because it in some way sends completely wrong signals in the context.

I thank again for the interpellation and for the Minister's commitment. In summary, my plea to the Minister and the government is to seek constructive ways together with tech and telecom actors operating in Sweden. It is not enough for the conversation to stop here in the Riksdag building; we must actually find something concrete. It could turn out to be absolutely decisive for a generation of children.

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Helena Vilhelmsson (C)

Madam Speaker! Just as important as trying to find tools that work through legislation and regulations is also to provide information – that we educate schools and parents. This applies primarily to parents; it is a real focal point. In the current situation, however, this is not enough, and we must also have other methods.

I remember when we first talked about web filters in all public computers. I don't think I have ever been called a moral crusader as much and as often as when we did that, but today 85 percent of the municipalities have entirely voluntarily introduced some kind of web filter. The point is, therefore, that we must start talking about this.

We must talk about what is a problem. We must agree that it is a problem, and we must define it. Then we must talk, talk, and talk, and after that we can perhaps come up with proposals for solutions. If one skips that part, it won't work, because we must be in agreement that it is a problem. We adults must talk about this, and I have also learned that one should not just ask the children how it has been at school during the day but also how it has been online, for example.

I also do not like having to take different boring examples from reality, but what hit me most was when Ungarelationer.se – whose funding, moreover, is very uncertain right now, which is also a side effect – had been active for a while and it turned out that the most common question one received was: Do you have to agree to strangulation sex? That hit very hard.

I can also take this opportunity to offer praise, as the government has actually tasked the National Board of Forensic Medicine with working on the issue by mapping the occurrence of strangulation. The term has also been changed to exactly strangulation, which I think is very good. For me, strangulation and sex do not even go together. Which words and what language we use is very important, so I think that was good.

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Kulturministern Parisa Liljestrand (M)

Madam Speaker! I intend to give some practical examples of what the government is doing, as I did not have time to do so last time.

Just as I said initially, this is such a broad issue that it extends across many different parts of society. Consequently, it also extends through many parts of politics, which means that things are being done in different places. One needs to see this collectively to understand what the palette looks like that we have to work with and that we also intend to take responsibility for purely politically. We can delve into some – not all, but some – of the assignments that the government has given in the recent period.

Among other things, in May 2023, we gave the Public Health Agency the assignment to obtain and compile knowledge on the connection between health effects and digital media use among children and young people. That assignment is, of course, very important, that is to say, to look at the way forward based on the knowledge compilation and the state of research. The Public Health Agency shall provide such recommendations.

Within the framework of the government's gender equality policy work, there is a ten-year national strategy at the Ministry of Employment to prevent and combat men's violence against women. The government is now working intensively to develop a new action program, which shall span from 2024 to 2026 and which concerns countering and combating men's violence against women and honor-related violence and oppression, which also falls within the framework of what needs to be worked on that has connections to this.

We also have Skolverket, which this year has been tasked with mapping and analyzing the work of preschools, schools, and school administrators in preventing, detecting, and addressing violence in young relationships and honor-related violence and oppression. Skolverket shall also develop, implement, and follow up on interventions in the area to supplement what the previous government initiated through assignments to the school and Skolverket.

When the member was present, we tasked the National Board of Forensic Medicine on March 7 to strengthen knowledge regarding strangulation. An improved state of knowledge regarding strangulation is expected to contribute to high quality in preliminary investigations and, in the long run, to the judicial system's work in preventing and deterring violence of this kind, not least in close relationships.

It is clear that I too am shocked by the stories we can hear and the figures we can see in the statistics. Among other things, we can see that there is twice as high a risk for young women as for women who have turned 25 to be killed by strangulation.

It is deplorable that it is in this way. We must continue to work with a broad palette of measures where it cannot be said that one should do something only within the framework of my department or within the framework of the Media Authority, which shall monitor and follow up that the legislation is followed. That this part functions is one thing. Then we must continue to work with legislation such as DSA. We must continue to follow up on this and also come up with new measures within the broad palette to address the problems that pornography leads to.

Fundamentally, this is, just as we touched upon initially, a very complicated issue because it also affects the freedom of expression and information. That is where it becomes problematic when one begins to impose restrictions.

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Åsa Eriksson (S)

Madam Speaker! This is a difficult and complex issue. I posed it to the Minister for Social Affairs in an attempt to get an overall view of the whole, but I am nevertheless glad that the Minister is here tonight.

Politics is about wanting something. It is possible if you want it. The United Kingdom adopted the Online Safety Act last October, which ensures that social media platforms are held accountable for the content they host. This means, among other things, that pornography sites must verify that their users are over 18 years old. It is possible if you want it. The question is whether the Minister for Culture will act to ensure that this is also done in Sweden.

Madam Speaker! I would like to refer once again to the book I have with me. It states that research shows that more than 70 percent of young boys who regularly watch porn would like to try what they have seen in the films in reality. It is not strange that so many young women are subjected to strangulation and risk being strangled to death, as the minister said.

We must put a stop to this. Increasing knowledge is good. Conducting mapping is also good. But we must limit young people's opportunity to consume torture porn.

Madam Speaker! I would like to hand over this book, which is titled Porrsnacket. It is actually a handbook for parents, but I believe it also suits members of Parliament and ministers perfectly. I believe that many of us need to increase our knowledge of what the everyday lives of children and young people on the internet look like and prevent more boys and girls from being sexually harmed or subjected to violence.

I thank the Minister for the debate.

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Kulturministern Parisa Liljestrand (M)

Madam Speaker! I must begin by expressing my regret that the member has been forced to be drawn in with me instead of with the Minister for Social Affairs. I hope that it has nevertheless functioned well in the debate.

Åsa Eriksson initially asked what initiatives I intend to take to protect children and young people and in that way also improve public health. I hope I have made it clear that within the government there is a breadth of ongoing measures to protect children and young people. Within my area of responsibility, the Media Authority naturally has a very important mandate to work towards protecting children against harmful media influence both through supervision and through promotional work in the form of knowledge-raising measures.

I would like to thank the member for raising an important question. I hope that this will continue to be an important debate where we can work together for the best interests of children and young people.

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

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