Response to interpellation 2023/24:488 on the will to defend Sweden

Statsrådet Carl-Oskar Bohlin (M)

Madam Speaker! Markus Selin has asked Defense Minister Pål Jonson what measures the minister intends to take to maintain and long-term strengthen Sweden's will to defend itself.

The work within the government is distributed in such a way that it is I who answer the interpellation.

The will to defend is, just as the questioner emphasizes, about the insight and determination to defend and protect our country and our fundamental values, such as democracy and human rights.

The will to defend is based on a number of different factors, for example, how the state takes responsibility for protecting the civilian population, that there is a functioning energy and food supply, and that healthcare and care are maintained even under very difficult conditions and at the very end in war.

Sweden stands out internationally as an open and democratic country with a high level of trust in state institutions and a high level of trust between people. Experiences from crises such as forest fires and the pandemic also show that there is a great willingness among the public to help, as well as that we are prepared to voluntarily follow recommendations based on the information we receive.

Our voluntary defense organizations as well as the Home Guard have also experienced a large influx of new members after Russia's brutal and full-scale invasion of Ukraine. The public's willingness to contribute time and knowledge to increase society's resilience is a strength in our society that is important to safeguard.

The Government has taken a number of measures in this area. The Government has tasked the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency with preparing an information campaign to increase Swedes' knowledge about Nato. Another example is that knowledge about total defense and Nato will be included in the curriculum for social studies in upper secondary school and adult education (komvux) from the autumn semester of 2025. Furthermore, a decision is planned regarding a mandate for MSB to produce a new version of the brochure that previously was titled Om krisen eller kriget kommer.

Measures are also being taken at the agency level. Since 2017, a preparedness week has been conducted annually where a large number of actors, including many municipalities and schools, participate. MSB carried out a high-profile campaign in 2022 when the agency sent letters to 16-year-olds to inform them about their role in the total defense.

The will to defend is established in peacetime in order to be able to be maintained and have an effect in war. I share the questioner's concern regarding movements in society that undermine the will to defend and the risk of external antagonistic influence. The population needs to be able to withstand disinformation and attacks in the information environment, and psychological defense is therefore an important part of total defense.

To increase the capacity within psychological defense, the government has, for example, increased the administrative grant for the Swedish Psychological Defence Agency by 8 million kronor during the years 2024-2026. The government also supports the voluntary defense organizations and other non-profit organizations through financial support via MSB and the Armed Forces.

I am grateful that people choose to engage in various voluntary organizations and stand to the service of society in our important, common work. In this way, we build up the total defense and the will to defend together.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Markus Selin (S)

Madam Speaker! Probably we stand here today debating the will to defend a bit extra because of Russia's unjust war against the brave people in Ukraine. Our thoughts go to them.

There are many different definitions of what defense will could be thought to be, definitionally. The Armed Forces has one, the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency has another, and so on, but if there is something that runs as a common thread through all these definitions, it is the beautiful words "we", "all", "our", "us" and "each other".

Just as Minister Bohlin pointed out, an update is underway of the brochure *Om krisen eller kriget kommer*. In today's version, it says: "One of our most important assets when something threatens us is our will to help one another."

I thank Minister Bohlin for a good answer. There are certainly six good arguments that appeal to me and which I have nothing against. This concerns everything from information initiatives to the subject plan, updated brochure, preparedness week, letter to 16-year-olds and more support for voluntary organizations. I support this strongly as a Social Democrat.

I welcome this, and I know that it will happen: We must develop our total defense, including the civilian part, and there the will to defend will eventually come in.

There is also an aspect here and now, namely that we are hopefully on the verge of joining Nato. When we join Nato, it is not only historical, but it is a new stage for our women and men - for those who shall defend not only our nation's borders but also participate in a collective, common defense far beyond the nation's borders.

Speaking of definitions of the will to defend in Sweden, we could highlight concepts and definitions such as that it is a good country to live in, that we have trust in one another and in authorities, as well as the attitude of contributing to the total defense. But here there are some things that grate, and it is an additional argument for why I stand here today and want to debate the will to defend. It concerns the view on the common threat picture and also how we in the government leadership - we all here, even in the Riksdag - communicate the will to defend.

I have reflected on what happened in Sälen in January 2024. I have turned it over and over how the Minister and also the Supreme Commander presented their pictures of the threat of war. It probably became too much and too strong. I believe, in fact, that a frustration and a motivation gap arises among the population if, let us say, the government leadership runs away and is on another level and has a different tonality when we talk about the risk of crisis and war. In other words, Madam Speaker: I consider that it did not turn out well in January.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Alexandra Anstrell (M)

Madam Speaker! Immediately after the outbreak of war when Russia invaded Ukraine, I made several school visits. Some students in primary school were quite angry as they had not previously received information that we actually must have a preparedness to manage on our own for up to seven days without support from society. They were willing, but they did not have the knowledge.

We need to create knowledge and awaken interest early regarding the preparedness and the defense that constitute a central prerequisite for Sweden and our way of life. The Minister stated in their response that knowledge about total defense and Nato will be included in the curriculum for social studies in upper secondary school and adult education (komvux) from 2025 onwards, and that is very good – thank you for that! Defending Sweden against external threats requires a professional core and a popular depth.

Increased information is required for young people regarding the fact that they are covered by the total defense obligation from the age of 16. We also need to introduce them to the subject, and opportunities should exist for study visits and lectures at the Försvarsmakten, MSB, and the like. I know that the government is further looking into introducing total defense information as a mandatory element even in primary school. I think this will become more commonplace the earlier one receives the information. Then it actually becomes nothing strange to be a "prepper" - everyone does it, so it becomes commonplace.

Madam Speaker! Our 18 voluntary defense organizations are extremely important in the work of increasing the will for defense. Volunteers are involved in and support the crisis preparedness and the civil defense. We need both military defense and civil defense, and we need both professional expertise and voluntary forces. The voluntary defense organizations play a significant role for the civil part of the total defense.

Svenska Lottakåren, where I am national chairperson, organizes various trainings on how to handle a crisis, what a Nato membership entails, and the like. There are trainings for both younger and older women, which increases knowledge about total defense and strengthens our will to defend.

Within Lottakåren, we can see a large influx of members. We saw it after the outbreak of war when Russia attacked Ukraine, but we can also see a large influx, among other things, since Minister Carl-Oskar Bohlins statement during the Folk och Försvars conference in Sälen in January. In the Facebook room that Lottakåren uses internally, Lottarummet, it is written day after day since the January conference: After what was said at the Folk och Försvars conference, I have now become a member!

It is extremely good and appreciated that the government has now decided to add an extra 55 million this year to our voluntary defense organizations. It is very good and welcome, and I truly think we can thank the government for that, Madam Speaker. We see that more people want to engage and be a part of Sweden's total defense. Thank you, all of you who engage in this in your spare time! Thank you, all of you who are involved and taking the fight for Sweden day in and day out! This has already now both strengthened and increased the will to defend, and it continues.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Statsrådet Carl-Oskar Bohlin (M)

Madam Speaker! I thank Alexandra Anstrell and Markus Selin for their contributions on an important issue.

Let me start from the back, Madam Speaker, namely regarding what Alexandra Anstrell stated about the importance of the voluntary defense organizations as a sub-component for building the will to defend and transforming the will to defend into defense capability. Our voluntary defense organizations fulfill an irreplaceable and important role, and I want to emphasize in every context I can how important they are for the defense capability and for strengthening the will to defend in the country.

What the government has done, which is a consequence both of the increased influx we saw directly after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine and of the increased influx we have seen after the Folk och Försvars national conference this year, is to provide more funds to the voluntary defense organizations. We have done this precisely so that they shall have the opportunity and conditions to manage the increased engagement in these organizations that we have seen.

Our hope is, naturally, that this will create ripples. It contributes to increased awareness throughout society regarding the serious security policy situation that Sweden finds itself in. I therefore thank Alexandra Anstrell for drawing attention to this.

Regarding the curricula, by 2025 there will already be sections on both Nato and our total defense concept in the curricula for upper secondary school. There is also, as part of an investigation, a look at how this can be introduced into the primary school curriculum, as that is naturally also an urgent matter.

Regarding Markus Selin's statement, I perhaps did not perceive that it concluded with any concrete question, but rather that a message was conveyed that the government had been too strong in its tone during the Folk och Försvar's parliamentary conference. Let me just say that what the government said was actually nothing new. We have had a unanimous defense committee that since 2017 has stated that an armed attack against Sweden cannot be ruled out. That means, conversely, that it can become war.

What has happened since then is that the security policy situation has continued to deteriorate. A unanimous defense committee has - with the agreement of eight parties - stated that we are currently experiencing the worst security policy situation since the end of the Second World War. It would have been a bigger news if this did not mean that there could be war.

We are not saying that there is an imminent threat of war against Sweden, but we are saying that we need to accelerate the reconstruction of the total defense. We need to strengthen the will for defense in Swedish society to account for a worsening development, and that is something that can only be done in advance. It is too late to start when misfortune has already struck. Therefore, what was said in Sälen was actually about appealing for proactivity and getting the system to work faster.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Markus Selin (S)

Madam Speaker! The Speaker took a fine initiative and sent us Members of Parliament to as many upper secondary schools and lower secondary schools as possible during the month of January this year. Ultimately, it was about celebrating that the Instrument of Government turns 50 years old. I would like to once again thank the Speaker for the fine initiative.

Personally, I managed to hold 16 different lessons over three weeks, from Norsborg and Nacka in the south to Arlandastad and Norrtälje in the north. During my 16 lessons, which lasted one or two hours, I met over 500 students and about thirty teachers and mentors. After lesson number one, two, or three, I began to reflect a little: Yes, it is probably my role as a Member of Parliament and a member of the Committee on Defence to answer the question of whether there will be war in Sweden. But after having been asked the question ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, or fourteen times, I began to feel some surprise - and a bit of irritation. Is it really my role to clarify Carl-Oskar Bohlins statement in Sälen?

Återigen: I believe that the will to defend is something incredibly fragile and perhaps the most important resource we have in a society. Therefore, there is a big question mark after statements like the one the State Councilor Bohlin made in Sälen, for example: "Despite this immediate presence, our mental defense mechanisms still seem to draw many conclusions that everything happening there happens somewhere else. There, but not here." He also said "with the power of the office. Less wrapped, and with unvarnished clarity: There could be war in Sweden." I am convinced that it had the wrong effect and led to much more extra work for many of us.

Mr. Speaker! Again: We must be extremely careful regarding the will to defend in our society. It is probably the most important resource we have.

For me, at least three questions remain here today. What will be the next possible step if we need to escalate further in tone? What basic analysis lay behind Bohlin's escalation in tone just then and there? And was it intended that this worry and confusion should arise, as well as this type of post-debate?

I just went onto the website of the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency, krisinformation.se, which is good. I linked further to Lilla Krisinfo, which is aimed at children and young people. There, one can read straight out: "The Armed Forces and the Swedish politicians do not believe that there will be war in Sweden right now, even though it is impossible to say."

I mean, again, that it went wrong, that it became too harsh. I wish that we, who together belong to some type of state leadership, can balance the tone better than was done in January.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Alexandra Anstrell (M)

Mr. Speaker! I want to highlight the Home Guard. The Home Guard consists of about 22,000 completely ordinary people who defend Sweden after work. Actually, they are, as they say in their advertisement right now, completely extraordinary people. Home Guard soldiers have civilian jobs that they leave for some week or a few weeks per year to be an important part of Sweden's defense. They are part of the Armed Forces and are ready to defend Sweden at short notice and with great endurance. We are talking about teachers, electricians, HR managers and plumbers who are also Home Guard soldiers. All around the country, thousands are ready to leave their civilian lives and step in to defend Sweden.

When the situation worsens, we can see that engagement increases. The Home Guard also, of course, notices the increasing engagement and the increasing will to defend. In connection with the start of Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022, the Armed Forces received a record number of applications to the Home Guard. In one week, 9,842 applications were received, Mr. Speaker. To manage the engagement, more personnel were appointed, and the number of training places was expanded.

The number of applications to the Home Guard increased even after the statement on the security situation during the Folk och Försvar conference in January. During the beginning of 2024, 1,200 applications were received for the Home Guard. This can be compared with approximately 250 the year before. I do not mean that it is the wrong effect, which Member Selin spoke about. It is precisely the opposite. The measures that the Minister spoke about in his response are good, both those that have been implemented and those that are to come.

I believe it is important to continue talking about it, just as was done at the People and Defense national conference. Information and knowledge is power. That is what we need. Now that we are joining Nato, it is also the whole of Sweden that is joining, not just the Armed Forces. Then we need to work together.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Statsrådet Carl-Oskar Bohlin (M)

Mr. Speaker! Let me initially link to what Member Anstrell very wisely stated: It is therefore not the Armed Forces that become members of Nato; it is all of Sweden. It is 10 million Swedes.

It constitutes a turning point and creates a new security policy doctrine for Sweden. We will join a community of values that Sweden has actually belonged to for a long time. Now we are taking the logical step. It was a pity that it had to take so long. But now we are finally on our way in.

Mr. Speaker! It is somewhat unclear to me what Member Selin is actually after in this discussion. It has dealt to a very small extent with what the question proposed and has to a greater extent dealt with trying to cast doubt on or discredit what was said during the Folk och Försvar conference.

Member of Parliament Selin tries to imply that what was said at the conference would have had some kind of negative impact on the will to defend Sweden. Even though it is an implicit claim, it is quite extraordinary to let it be implied. To that, no part provides the data point or for what basis one would have to make such a claim.

The People and Defense conference was about creating awareness of the security policy situation that Sweden finds itself in. The Defense Preparedness Board has in the recent past, in two consecutive reports, stated that Sweden is in the most serious security policy situation since the end of the Second World War. It is a major and serious observation. It means, of course, that it cannot be ruled out that war could also come to Sweden. But it does not mean that there is a risk that there will be war tomorrow or that we have an immediately imminent threat of war. In this part, the government has been very clear.

I believe it is good if we in this chamber, especially if one is a member of the Committee on Defence, do not lend ourselves to actively trying to misunderstand what was actually said. But it is beneficial to hear that Member Selin, after having taken part of the information that is available to children in any case, has understood what the government intended and meant.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Markus Selin (S)

Mr. Speaker! I spoke in my opening remarks about the motivation gap and the frustration gap. I see a strong connection to the will to defend. I believe I have been clear.

Mr. Speaker! Aesop wrote the fable about the boy who cried wolf 2,500 years ago. The meaning of the fable is that if one cries "The wolf is coming!" too many times, we will not have confidence in the most important thing we have in a society. I hope that I have expressed that clearly. Because it is indeed the most important thing we have.

My mother and father were born in Finland during a burning war. My grandfather survived five years of war, my maternal grandfather likewise. I therefore cannot stop thinking that in Finland, they looked a bit surprised at the Swedish government at the beginning of the year. Let me, to be clear, borrow a few words from Finland's then-president, Sauli Niinistö. He probably felt forced to step in and help the government in Sweden. He said: Do not be afraid, but be vigilant! That is what Finland said, which lost a ninth of its territory and was affected by 450,000 internal refugees.

It is still up to Minister Bohlin to answer what led to such an escalation in tone there and then, in Sälen on January 7.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Statsrådet Carl-Oskar Bohlin (M)

Mr. Speaker! The discussion is becoming increasingly strange in its character. I accounted for what a unanimous defense committee, eight parties in agreement, has stated. It is said that the armed attack cannot be ruled out. This means, conversely, purely semantically, that there can be war. It is said that it is the most serious security policy situation since the end of the Second World War.

Member Selin is rightly called out: Is this assembly crying wolf, or is a unanimous Defense Committee crying wolf? In that case, Member Selin has an excellent opportunity to deliberate with his representative in the Defense Committee, who also happens to be here in the room.

What we expressed at the People and Defense parliamentary conference was in line with what the Defense Preparation Board has stated in two consecutive reports during the previous year. Regarding the Finnish president's statements in his New Year's speech, I want to say that they also align with what we have said. I said in my speech in Sälen: I do not want to appeal to your fear. In exactly the same way, the Finnish president expresses himself.

But it requires vigilance, and it requires promptness in action. Above all, the insight needs to be that time is also a cost. We do not know how much time we have. We can repeat once again that there is no immediate imminent threat of war against Sweden, but we need to improve our preparatory work for a deteriorated security policy development.

Thank you for the debate!

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)