Response to interpellation 2023/24:682 on equal pay
Translated from Swedish by AI; the translation may contain errors. The Swedish text is the original.
Summary AI, written in advance
The debate concerns equal pay and women's life incomes. S argues that the pay gap is a waste of human resources 1, that women earn less than men for the same work 1 and that women work for free more than men 2. S believes that the healthcare crisis threatens women's life incomes, that women have poorer opportunities to develop at work and that the government is undermining education for foreign-born women 3. S demands concrete political measures 4. L argues that pay differences are primarily explained by different occupations and educations 5. L wants to focus on life economics 6, growth and curbing inflation 7.
Written by AI in advance and may contain errors. The numbers lead to the speech a statement builds on; check against the text below.
Statsrådet Paulina Brandberg (L)
Mr. Speaker! Sanne Lennström has asked me which political measures I intend to implement to reduce the wage gap and increase economic equality in Sweden.
I welcome the member's commitment to the issue – a commitment I share. The issue of economic equality is prioritized by the government. The wage differences between women and men have trend-wise decreased over two decades. Let me at the same time state that it is true that the wage difference between women and men was unchanged between 2021 and 2022.
According to the Medling Institute, the main explanation for the wage difference between women and men is that they work in different occupations and sectors. From SCB's statistics, it appears that only 4 of the 30 most common occupations have an even gender distribution. This gender division in the labor market can primarily be explained by the fact that women and men largely choose different education.
The differences in total wage income are also influenced by the fact that it is significantly more common for women to work part-time and be on parental leave, as well as that they take greater responsibility for home and care work.
The parties in the labor market have the primary responsibility for wage formation. The Government safeguards the Swedish wage formation model and has great confidence that the parties take their responsibility without political interference.
A tool for making unjustified pay differences visible is the work with pay mapping. In the Discrimination Act (2008:567), there are provisions including requirements for all employers to conduct an annual pay mapping for the purpose of detecting, rectifying, and preventing unjustified differences in pay between women and men. The Equality Ombudsman has supervision over that the Discrimination Act is followed.
In conclusion, I can say that the government over the past year has taken the initiative for a long series of different assignments aimed at promoting economic equality. This covers everything from remote work after the covid-19 pandemic, women's establishment in the labor market and equality in the housing market to analysis of life incomes. The government has also given an assignment to Tillväxtverket which, among other things together with Jämställdhetsmyndigheten, shall develop proposals for measures aimed at improving the conditions for women's entrepreneurship, ownership and business operations.
Sanne Lennström (S)
Mr. Speaker! I thank the Minister very much for the answer and for today's debate on equal pay.
Initially, I want to say that I share the Minister's view that the parties in the labor market clearly have the primary responsibility for wage formation. It is our Swedish model, and it is, just as the Minister says, worth protecting. However, this does not mean that the politicians or the government can abdicate their responsibility regarding equal pay. There are quite a few different political measures that can be implemented within the framework of the Swedish model. I intended to mention some of these a bit later today.
In my question to the Minister, I mentioned Lön throughout the day, which has released its annual report. It shows that women work for free for 48 minutes every day, in comparison to men. Women, therefore, work for pay until 16:12, while men are paid all the way until 17:00. This is disheartening, but what is most disheartening is that the clock is not ticking. It has stopped. The gender pay gap has stopped decreasing and has instead stood still.
This question is extremely important because gender equality in economics is about justice and freedom, but above all because it is about women's empowerment.
Without a reasonable income, it becomes more difficult, for example, to get out of a violent relationship. One cannot afford the cost that moving, arranging a new home, buying furniture and so on can entail, so one stays. In the end, it can also mean a poorer pension. Unfortunately, it is no coincidence that the majority of those counted as poor pensioners in our country today are women. This development must come to an end.
Mr. Speaker! We could stand here at the rostrum for a long time and only highlight how serious this problem is, but we need to use the time for something more important, namely how we move forward.
Lön hela dagen has a list of requirements on four points that would make a big difference for the country's women, namely the same opportunity for full-time work and secure forms of employment, that structural wage differences are also made visible and addressed, equal parental leave, as well as increased supervision and stricter sanctions linked to the requirement for wage mapping.
My question to the Minister here today was: What political measures does the Minister intend to implement to reduce the wage gap and increase economic equality in Sweden? There are, therefore, four concrete measures that both researchers and labor market partners have pushed hard for, not least the third point: equal parental leave.
The Minister mentioned that part of the unequal wages can be attributed to the fact that women take greater responsibility for home and children. During a seminar here in the Riksdag, the parties in the labor market were asked which individual change would make the biggest difference for women's wages. They answered unanimously: a more equal parental leave or a more equal take-up of parental leave.
The fathers take approximately 12-13 percent of the total parental leave, if one counts both paid and unpaid parental leave. We recently had a research lecture in the Committee on Social Affairs where it became clear that the uptake is unequal even when it comes to vab, childcare. Measures are needed here, which I hope that Minister Brandberg and perhaps also Minister Tenje can look at together, because Sweden's women deserve better.
I thank you for the account of which projects the government plans, but it is actually only one of the solutions that touches upon the Lön hela dagen-nätverkets' request. Therefore, my question remains: What additional measures does the Minister intend to implement in the near future to create more equal wages linked to the Lön hela dagen-nätverkets' demands?
Anna Wallentheim (S)
Mr. Speaker! I am one of the Members of Parliament who receives and meets the most high school classes. One of the absolutely most common questions I receive is: What do you earn? That in itself is nothing strange, because it is clear that it is exciting to know what we politicians in the heart of Swedish democracy earn. But then we come to the sad part, because it is not entirely uncommon that after I have answered, I also receive the question of whether everyone earns the same amount. What people want to know is whether we female politicians earn as much as male politicians.
I feel genuine sorrow when, above all, young girls are surprised when I answer yes, that we have exactly the same fee. What I encounter is, therefore, young girls who in 2024 still take for granted that women are worth less on the labor market and that we do not earn as much. The sad thing here is that this is a truth in many professions.
The gender pay gap is still a reality in today's Sweden, despite decades of struggle for equality. Women still earn on average less than men for the same work, and the differences are reinforced by factors such as gender, ethnicity, and disability. This is not only unfair, but it is also inefficient and negative for the economy as a whole.
When women do not receive as much pay as men for equal work, it undermines their economic independence and opportunities for economic well-being. It also affects our ability to save for retirement, our ability to buy a home, and our ability to invest in our own future and our children's future. Just as the interpellator Sanne Lennström mentioned, it also affects our ability to leave destructive conditions.
This is therefore not just a question of individual justice, but it is a question of the entire society's welfare and growth. But the pay gap is unfortunately only part of a larger problem when it comes to economic inequality between the genders. Women are also overrepresented in low-wage jobs and part-time work. We have poorer opportunities for career development and economic advancement. It is a waste of human resources, and it is a loss for our economy and for women as a whole.
Women also, just as the Minister mentioned, have higher education than men but despite this lower wages. Since wages constitute the largest part of women's and men's incomes, this has great significance for women's lives and for economic equality.
My question to the Minister, on the same theme as the previous speaker had, is therefore: How does the Minister view the uneven uptake of the parental leave, which many consider to be one of the reasons for unequal wages?
Statsrådet Paulina Brandberg (L)
Mr. Speaker! First, I just want to confirm the interpellator's statement. Of course, the government, not just the parties, has a responsibility when it comes to reviewing how we can reduce our wage gap.
Mr. Speaker! The Equality Institute has an important role when it comes to shedding light on the wage gap and what actually lies behind it. The Equality Institute has been tasked with conducting equality analyses of wage income and also other incomes that affect an individual's disposable income during life.
The assignment has included, among other things, looking at what income differences look like in different parts of the labor market and what the income gap looks like for different groups in the population, for example, by age, region of birth, and the length of residence in Sweden for those born abroad. I think this is important. When we talk about the wage gap in Sweden, we often talk about a percentage which is, of course, an average for Sweden, but if we look at our country, we see that the situation looks very different in different parts of the country.
I mean that we here particularly must shed light on the groups in the population where we see that the problem is greatest, and one of these groups is our foreign-born women. Here we see a wage gap that we can manage. We can take measures to reduce the wage gap if we ensure that this group comes closer to the labor market and enters there and gets opportunities to be a full-fledged part of our society. Here we see that there is much work left to do.
The government makes many efforts within the area of integration, but we also have certain specific measures that are aimed precisely at women. For example, we now have a regulation on state grants for the organization of women and girls in our vulnerable areas - a state grant that I hope will give civil society better conditions to get this group to come closer and become a larger part of our society.
Mr. Speaker! I think the issue of wage differences is important, but when I talk about economic equality, I prefer to use the term life economics. Wage differences are a part of life economics, but absolutely not all of it. We must talk much more about savings, we must talk about ownership, we must talk about life incomes and we must talk about how, for example, parental leave and sick leaves affect our pensions and our income throughout life.
Regarding the parental leave specifically, the government has taken a measure. We are now implementing a reform where we want more double days that both parents can take out and also that one should be able to transfer parental days to a larger circle of people. This is an important measure for, for example, the single parents who struggle to make everyday life work.
We will, of course, continue to look in different ways at what measures we in the government can take to reduce economic inequality.
Sanne Lennström (S)
Mr. Speaker! Sweden is still not equal. We are far ahead in several respects, but women still have lower wages, poorer opportunities to develop at work and a worse working environment than men.
The Minister mentions the parental leave as one of the tools we can work with here, and both I and the interpellator Anna Wallentheim also highlight it.
But I become a bit uneasy when the specific question of transferring days within the parental leave is raised. It can, just as the Minister mentions, be a good reform for single parents to be able to solve the life puzzle and return to work faster. That is why we Social Democrats agreed to that specific part. But it is also a reform that opens the door to massive welfare crime, which, for example, the Economic Crime Authority pointed out. It is therefore very important when implementing such reforms that one also looks broadly at what effects the reforms can have. For if this benefits gang crime, we will return to the previous interpellation debate. It is therefore very important that one looks at the whole puzzle if one is now going to add pieces regarding equal pay as well.
We Social Democrats believe that women and men should have equal rights and equal responsibilities in family life, professional life, and social life. We believe this because equality, growth, and jobs are interconnected. All competence should be utilized in the labor market. That is not where we are today. That development has, as we have previously mentioned, completely stalled. Therefore, I took the initiative for this debate today.
Since the Minister paints quite broadly regarding where one can equip oneself for better wages and better living incomes, I think it is difficult not to speak of women's wages without touching upon the healthcare crisis that we also see today in Sweden. The money that the government adds to the country's regions is not anywhere near preventing the mass layoffs and cuts that we are facing. The cuts will result in some, not least women who are a dominant gender within this industry, being laid off and that others may have fewer colleagues. The workload may increase, and it could mean that one needs to reduce hours or, in the worst case, hit a wall and become on sick leave and thereby have a reduced income. One might also look for another job with a more reasonable workload. All of this can give women lower living incomes, as the Minister mentions, and reduce the freedom and the economic empowerment that women actually have.
Politics is, as previously mentioned, about priorities, and it is not possible to prioritize abolished plastic bag tax and luxury-rot while simultaneously refusing to introduce a bank tax. This type of prioritization will ultimately not lead to better welfare, better healthcare, or equal wages.
Just as the interpellator Anna Wallentheim mentioned earlier, everyone benefits from a more equal society. That is why we are engaging in the debate here today.
My question this time to the Minister is: Does the Minister agree that Sweden's healthcare crisis right now is a serious threat to women's opportunities for reasonable wages and a reasonable income?
Anna Wallentheim (S)
Mr. Speaker! I want to start by pointing out what the Minister mentioned, namely that we must also focus on foreign-born women. But then it is incredibly sad that we have a government that is undermining education, which is such an incredibly important part for foreign-born women to be able to enter the labor market.
In Sweden and throughout the Western world, we are also seeing an increased stay-at-home trend right now, where young women dream of or encourage each other to become modern housewives. I also hear guys mention that women in their biographies on dating sites more and more often desire men who are financially independent, so that they can be at home and take care of the house and children. This can, of course, be seen as a resistance against society's high demands. These are demands that many women see as impossible to achieve and which instead lead to exhaustion or unclear expectations, and which make them dream of something else.
But we can never accept a society where young women are prepared to give up power or economic rights because an equal society has not been succeeded in creating. Women in Sweden already today have fewer economic resources than men, which also means that they have less power to shape society and their own lives. And a large proportion of women in Sweden are still economically dependent on a man in order to be able to live their lives.
In our strong society, we Social Democrats stand up for everyone's equal rights, regardless of whether you are a man, woman, boy or girl. An equal society is a safer society. We therefore need to continue to work to improve equality, so that women neither have lower wages than men nor poorer opportunities to develop.
For me as a Social Democrat, it is therefore simple. Equality and gender equality must increase, not decrease. And I therefore look forward to real proposals here in the Riksdag.
Statsrådet Paulina Brandberg (L)
Mr. Speaker! I intended to raise the issue of lifetime income, which I touched upon in my previous speech. The interpellator mentioned that Sweden is far ahead in the work on equality. And that is correct in certain areas. But when we look specifically at lifetime income and look at all parts of economic equality, Sweden has a major lesson to learn. We see, in fact, that economic inequality begins as early as infancy. There is research showing that parents save more money for their sons than for their daughters. Even there, the economic inequality begins. Then this inequality follows throughout life. We are talking, as said, about wage differences here, but we must also see that not everyone is a wage earner in our country.
Of course, women should also be able to run businesses on the same terms as men. Here we have a situation today where less than 1 percent of venture capital goes to companies owned by women. Seen in an international context, I can say that I am ashamed. If we look at statistics in Sweden regarding companies that have at least one employee and look at what proportion of these companies are run by women, we see that we place ourselves second worst in the EU, after Malta. It is, Mr. Speaker, not acceptable that we in Sweden, who have a self-image of being so good at equality, are so bad in this part of economic equality.
For me, this shows that we have looked too narrowly at the question of economic equality. Of course, we should talk about wage gaps – we must not stop doing that – but we must be able to hold several thoughts in our heads at the same time and see that we must make specific investments precisely in other parts of economic equality where we are embarrassingly bad in Sweden.
From the government's side, we have given Tillväxtverket a mandate to review what measures we can take to promote women's entrepreneurship, as we see that it is an important freedom reform for women and for economic equality, which we need to take seriously.
We also, of course, need to address and manage the trends that we see. The stay-at-home-wife trend that we see growing stronger was mentioned, the one that some call a soft girl trend. It is clear that every person should be allowed to make their own life choices, and the government should not interfere. But if we shift the focus and talk about life incomes, we can shed light on what consequences this type of decision has for people. When one makes decisions about how one wants to live their life, it should therefore be done in an informed way, so that one knows how it, for example, affects the pension if one chooses to live as a housewife and how it affects the possibilities of leaving the relationship one is living in if one no longer wants to stay in it, which is practically impossible if one is financially dependent on the perpetrator.
It is this holistic approach we need to take regarding gender equality policy - to see all parts of life income and also carry out extensive information work, so that people in our country can make informed decisions about their personal finances.
Sanne Lennström (S)
Mr. Speaker! I would like to thank the Minister for her commitment to the issue. I feel the commitment, and it still gives some hope for the future.
A little more than a year ago, the Minister and I stood here and debated exactly this topic, namely equal pay. The Minister then referred to the fact that she had only been in office for a few months. Today she has been in office a bit longer, and my hope is that we do not stand here in the speaker's chairs in a year's time with yet another disappointing report that equal pay has received yet another backlash - that they have backed down or stalled.
There are, in fact, many proposals that can prevent such a development, and I hope that the Minister truly takes these proposals to heart and considers them in order to be able to make a real difference. I do not believe that one can address this problem with only reports, mappings, and information intended to lead to informed choices. That is absolutely part of the whole, but I also believe that one needs to look at concrete political measures that truly make a difference in this issue.
With that, I would like to thank you very much for today's debate.
Statsrådet Paulina Brandberg (L)
Mr. Speaker! Of course, it is disheartening to see that the positive development we have had regarding the wage gap has stalled. However, we must see this in the context that we are in a very difficult economic period, which applies to both Sweden and our global surroundings. We are also in a situation where we have had a pandemic that affected society in many different ways.
The government has focused very much on managing the economic crisis to ensure that all people in our country have more money in their wallets. I think the Social Democrats' coalition partners have a view on the economic crisis that is remarkable, and it makes me concerned. Just the other day we could read in the newspaper that Miljöpartiet wants to stop economic growth, and Vänsterpartiet has at least previously presented budgets that would be pure inflation bombs and which would cause the money people have in their wallets to lose almost all its value.
All of this, of course, we must also address when we talk about economic equality. We need, in fact, to have growth in the country, and we need to ensure that we dampen inflation so that the money people have in their wallets actually continues to be worth something.
With that said, I would like to thank you for the debate. I am happy to continue debating the issue more times, and I hope that despite the economic situation we have, we will be able to find measures moving forward to reduce wage differences and increase economic equality generally in Sweden.
Source: The Swedish Parliament. The speeches come from the open data of the Riksdag, translated into English by AI, which may contain errors.