Response to interpellation 2023/24:731 on measures to prevent Nazi attacks

Justitieministern Gunnar Strömmer (M)

Madam Speaker! Mattias Vepsä has, in light of what has happened in Gubbängen, Gislaved, and Västerås, where Nazis have attempted to disrupt political meetings with violence and threats and where participants have been injured, asked me if I and the government realize that far-right extremism is a real threat and what I and the government intend to take for measures.

Let me begin by stating that we are in a situation where Sweden must handle three main threats to our internal security in parallel: different state actors acting hostilely towards Sweden, organized crime, and terrorism and violent extremism. When it comes to violent extremism, I share Mattias Vepsäs's view that right-wing extremism constitutes a real threat. This is also expressed in the government's new national strategy against violent extremism and terrorism, which covers measures against terrorist crime and other ideologically motivated crimes.

Over a longer period, the threats from violent extremism come from several different sides: the far-right - which I have already mentioned -, violent Islamism, and the autonomous left. We must have the breadth and the long-term perspective to handle all of these simultaneously. In recent years, it has primarily been about far-right extremism and violent Islamism.

Physical violence stands out and must be condemned with particular force. Those responsible for such acts shall be arrested and prosecuted for their crimes. Even other serious disturbances aimed at silencing opponents and sabotaging the possibility of open debate and dialogue justify a clear stance of condemnation. All of this erodes our democracy and ultimately makes an open, democratic conversation impossible.

In order for the national strategy to be able to function as an effective tool in practical work, the government has given a mandate to the Center against violent extremism at the Crime Prevention Council, the Swedish Security Service, the Swedish Police Authority, and the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency, MSB, to take measures to incorporate the strategy into their operations. By these four agencies having the opportunity to reach out quickly, both jointly and through their own networks and cooperation structures, the government assesses that the strategy against violent extremism and terrorism is, with this specific mandate, given the conditions to gain traction at national, regional, and local levels.

The government also gave, in July 2023, the 15 agencies that are part of the Counter-Terrorism Cooperation Council the mandate to develop and intensify the work against terrorism and violent extremism in order to strengthen Sweden's security. The agencies shall, against the background of the deteriorated security situation, intensify their cooperation, and the Swedish Security Service shall coordinate the long-term development of this work.

In August last year, the Crime Prevention Council was also tasked with strengthening national cooperation and coordination to prevent radicalization and violent extremism, also within the framework of their activities at the Center against violent extremism.

At the beginning of May, I had meetings with authority representatives and representatives from all parliamentary parties to discuss the situation and measures. The conclusion was unambiguous and unanimous: We must collectively stand up for our free and open society. With the national strategy as a basis, ongoing assignments, and the authorities' reinforced cooperation, there are good conditions to meet threats from violent extremism and terrorism and develop effective preventive measures.

I and the government will continue to closely monitor the work and are, of course, prepared to take further measures if deemed necessary.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Mattias Vepsä (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you for the answer, Minister of Justice!

This is a recurring discussion here in the chamber. I have repeatedly, during the years that Gunnar Strömmer has been Minister of Justice in Sweden, pointed out that hate and threat activities in the far-right environment are growing. Above all, we see it in how people today are prepared to target democratic forces, civil society organizations, study circles, meetings, and demonstrations. This became particularly clear the week before May 1st and during May 1st, but also in connection with the revelation that has now emerged that disinformation, hate, and threats online are something deeply organized.

We obviously share the view that this is a threat. I am pleased that the Minister for Justice today mentions right-wing extremism in a clearer way. I have had a recurring thought in these debates, namely that right-wing extremism in particular seems to be difficult to name and handle in the way that is required. In several debates, the Minister has – quite rightly – pointed out that we have a multitude of different threats. The new strategy mentioned here combines terrorism, violent extremism from both the right and the left, and Islamist extremism. We are essentially in agreement on that. We Social Democrats, however, want a clearer statement, after the events we have witnessed this spring, on what the Minister and the government intend to do to protect civil society.

I have spent time during the week listening to testimonies from Västerås. We saw during May 1st how a dozen masked men come storming in with smoke grenades, banners and flags, stand in front of the stage, unfurl the banners, wave their flags and fire blanks - this in an environment where the Social Democrats are organizing a family day on May 1st.

In this place, there were many families. It was also, as today, a beautiful day with sunshine and warmth. It was a fantastic celebration. Despite the fact that the largest party in the government base wanted to see shorter May Day marches, we got longer May Day marches. Many people across the country chose to join in, to be there and demonstrate, which is their democratic right.

In this environment, this grouping storms in and scares people. The children cry. The parents become terrified. Also, those who arrange the meeting are faced with a fearsome situation, as one does not know what these groups are ready to do. What we know is that representatives of just this group, not only in Sweden but all around Europe, have invited themselves into school halls, sports halls, and gyms. We know that they are ready to go on the attack. We see around Europe that it is so. We see how these environments grow online and how they hate and threaten. We see how they train themselves in confrontation. We now also see how they are prepared to scare children and families with children on the labor movement's day of celebration.

Against that background, I wonder if the Minister could explain whether there are further concrete things to do. Can we from this chamber and from the Government Offices, for example with the police, ensure that civil society organizations receive clearer support and have risk assessments carried out when democratic meetings, study circles, and demonstrations are organized? And what is the Minister doing to once and for all counteract the fact that democratic forces should have to be afraid during their arrangements?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Annika Strandhäll (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Minister of Justice, for being here for this debate!

I want to describe the day in Gislaved, where I spoke. You know that it is a small community in Småland with 29,000 inhabitants. We started by walking in a first of May parade together. There were quite a few from the small town who had gathered. They probably thought that it was someone exciting who was going to speak. We walked around in Gislaved behind drill girls and a brass band.

Then we went to the family day in Dalenparken, where activities had been ongoing since the morning. There were bouncy castles, popcorn stands, hot dog grilling, and waffles. It was a quite exciting event in Gislaved. It was the first warm spring day. People sat on the balconies and drank coffee. Many were very happy. Children ran around. There were balloons. You see the picture before you, Gunnar Strömmer.

First, students from the music school performed. There were two speakers. I went up on the stage and began to speak. I had a wonderfully beautiful park in front of me and a lawn to the right. I didn't quite see – it was outside my field of vision – but I just heard cars driving in. A kind of commotion began to break out. Ten, twelve people poured out of the cars. They had megaphones and gasoline with them. There were knives in the cars. They began to scream, shout, and interrupt my speech with all kinds of invectives. You know that well. You know about this with right-wing extremism, Gunnar Strömmer.

I heard that a tumult arose. I still didn't quite see it. I delivered my speech, at the urging of the gathered audience. It was both Social Democrats, union members, and ordinary residents of Gislaved of all ages who stood there. When I finished my speech, I went down. An 80-year-old woman with an equally aged man beside her sat on a plastic chair a bit away on the lawn. She was crying uncontrollably. She has attended every May 1st demonstration throughout her entire adult life. When she asked them to quiet down, because she wanted to listen to the speaker, she was attacked and pushed down to the ground. She was in pain.

In conclusion, I would like to ask a question to the Minister for Justice. You are a wise person. I have followed you for large parts of your career in your various roles. I would like to ask you and hear your reasoning on what you think about the government's organized cooperation with a party formed by Nordiska rikspartiet, Bevara Sverige svenskt, Framstegspartiet, and Sverigepartiet. The current party leader joined when Anders Klarström, who has a background in Nordiska rikspartiet and is a Nazi, was party leader. Do you believe that the organized cooperation in Sweden's government can affect how seriously the government views the threat from right-wing extremism?

(ANDRE VICE TALMANNEN: I want to remind that we should address each other by first and last name or as Minister.)

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Anna Wallentheim (S)

Madam Speaker! I would like to thank Mattias Vepsä for an incredibly important interpellation and Annika Strandhäll, who conveys something that it is important that more people get to take part in. What we hear and what we see are, in fact, attacks against democracy.

I want to begin with a quote, Madam Speaker. It is: Nothing happened. I was lucky. I have heard that and similar sentences from colleagues in the Riksdag but also from politicians across the country when we have talked about how the May Day celebrations were, what was done, and so on.

My perception is that no politician should ever have to say: Nothing happened. I was lucky. No politician should ever have to be lucky in order not to be attacked. No politician should ever have to be lucky in order to be able to carry out their mandate.

In this house, we are 349 members who take responsibility. All around our country, we are thousands of politicians who want to take responsibility. We are thousands of people who want to take responsibility for democracy. We devote a part of our free time and a moment of our lives to actually trying to make a difference for democracy. We need to become even more.

The attacks both in Gubbängen, which occurred before May 1st, and during May 1st are unfortunately not isolated incidents. We also see attacks against association life and against civil society. People storm meetings and so on in order to resist.

As we have said, we need more people who want to take responsibility for our country and for our democracy. I have mentioned on several occasions that I am one of the Members of Parliament who meets the most high school classes. It is one of the most enjoyable and important things I know in my role. It is incredibly important to meet the future generation, to make them understand that they too have the opportunity to one day be in this house. It does not matter who you are, what background you have, and so on. We can all take responsibility for our country and for our democracy.

I meet these school classes because I want to encourage them and say that this is one of the most fun things one can do. I hope that you also want to take that chance one day, regardless of which party you belong to. It is important that there is a generation that takes over the day we in this chamber are not prepared to continue.

It is the future I am meeting. And the young generation, of course, has many questions. Unfortunately, one of them is: Are you ever afraid? Then one has to stand in front of the school classes and explain what it actually means to be a politician and that we sometimes experience these attacks.

I have, thank goodness, never had to face any physical threats. But mentally and digitally, I am receiving more and more. I apologize for what I am about to say now, Madam Speaker, but I unfortunately often hear: sossehora. People have also emailed me and written: I hope you get raped, so that I can stand by and laugh.

These are also attacks against politicians and against our democracy. Therefore, my question to the Minister for Justice is: How can we work more so that more young people will be prepared to take responsibility for democracy in our country in the future, when we see that these attacks are occurring and unfortunately often against young girls and women who are involved in parties on the left?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Justitieministern Gunnar Strömmer (M)

Madam Speaker! First and foremost, I would like to thank Mattias Vepsä for the opportunity to discuss these important issues today and for an excellent interpellation. I would also like to thank you for many thought-provoking testimonies about what happened in Gislaved and in other places during the May Day celebrations this year.

I will begin by hooking onto Anna Wallentheim's question at the end. Which democratic values are at stake? Beyond personal safety, it is fundamentally a free and open society, a living civil society, and an attractiveness that can make young, engaged people want to seek out not only political parties but also other forms of social engagement and social debate.

It is clear that there is a scale of different threats against a free and open society, but it is clear that physical violence and the threat of physical violence must be seen as the most brutal expression of such a threat profile and be taken with particularly great seriousness. That is why many on good grounds - all of them - reacted very powerfully against what first happened against a meeting arranged by Vänsterpartiet - even Miljöpartiet, I believe - in Gubbängen outside Stockholm and in a few other places in close proximity.

If we broaden the picture and are sincere, political violence over a longer period has been directed from different sides and towards different directions. This underlines the importance of having, over a long period, a strong and uncompromising commitment against all extremism, especially that which is violence-seeking.

Let me mention what characterizes the measures that the government has taken in this area. Mattias Vepsä implies that I would have had difficulty expressing the same clarity when it comes to right-wing extremist violence as other violence. But there is no basis for that at all. The entire starting point in the strategy that we have put forward against violent extremism is the broad approach; to speak plainly about violence over a longer period, violent extremism, and what is the threat in any given time. That is why I have said that over a longer period we have seen that the threats come from several different directions, namely violent Islamism, right-wing extremism, and the autonomous left. In recent years, our authorities, the Swedish Security Service, and also the government and I personally have underlined the threat from right-wing extremism and violent Islamism. What has then caused us to end up at a higher terror threat level during the past year was primarily an escalation of the threat from the violent Islamist environment.

In that context, I can answer directly to Annika Strandhäll's question about the cooperation with Sverigedemokraterna, that I would find it more difficult to speak about these issues than about other issues: The simple and direct answer to the question is no.

When we speak about right-wing extremist violence, we do so with the same clarity and sharpness, the same analytical and deep precision as when we speak about threats and violence from other sides.

Let me conclude by saying that in addition to what we have already done – in which way we have stayed ahead of the curve with strategies and assignments – I would like to point out an important conclusion from the meeting with all parties that took place after the incident in Gubbängen. Mattias Vepsä was on this, namely the concrete support in the interaction between organizers and the police regarding risk assessments. Without doubt, the recent events have underscored the importance of this not being made into a routine dialogue but being taken with the utmost seriousness.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Mattias Vepsä (S)

Madam Speaker! I thank the Minister for Justice for the answer.

We have had the discussion earlier about what gives what. I also began my first speech by saying that we are fundamentally in agreement that the different environments exist, that they must be countered, and that we shall combat them in all available ways.

What we have repeatedly discussed over the past year is that when we see increased activity in one of the groups, for example in militant Islamist extremism, far-right extremism also grows. Here, I perceive that we have not quite been heard in taking this seriously. We have, among other things, highlighted what it looks like around the EU, and we have linked this with the concern I feel that this is connected with conspiracy theories, with how the far-right organize themselves online in gaming environments and reach more and more young people. Not least during the spring, we have received reports that far-right extremists even in Sweden rent gymnastics halls in Stockholm under false names to train in martial arts and be ready to launch attacks. Later, we have seen attacks occur at democratic meetings and at demonstrations. Here, I perceive that even a year ago, one could have highlighted far-right extremism as well as the threat from extremist Islamism in an even clearer way.

It is important to point out that there is a party that stands out. I intended to return to this later. There is a party whose leading representatives – we do not need to go into this in this debate – express themselves in a way that I would say whips up sentiments not only here in Sweden but all around the world. It increases the threat of terrorism, the spread of disinformation, and hatred against minority groups or religious groups, for example Muslims.

I thought briefly to see if the Minister and I agree on the following. In Säpo's annual summary from 2023, it appears, just as the Minister says, that violent Islamism and violent right-wing extremism are the major threats we see. We also see that conspiracy theories and anti-government messages are spread where they want to increase distrust towards society's functions. With that, an erosion of the democratic system, trust in authorities, and trust in the institutions is also risked. The agency also describes what subversive activity is. It is interesting. What is meant to happen, and how this is conducted, is through methods such as propaganda, disinformation, infiltration, criminality, sabotage, and threats of terror.

Expo is an expert group, an organization, that for decades has kept track of the environment. They argue that the far-right is currently carrying out a consistent work precisely by threatening, silencing, and intimidating those who are perceived as political opponents. Through the threats, people are made to be silent. During the last year, we could see the environments develop.

I land on the question of whether the minister shares the view of the authorities that this is how it works, that this is what the threats look like, that the method of work involves intimidating, threatening, and using subversive activities. Does the minister also share my view that we see an enormous threat, that democratic voices are being intimidated into silence? If the minister shares the view, what more can we do to sharpen the work based on the strategy?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Annika Strandhäll (S)

Madam Speaker! I thank the Minister for Justice for the answer to my question.

The nearest residents and organizers in Gislaved had encountered Nazism before the day I arrived there and gave a speech, which they themselves stated, as sticky notes on poles outside the town hall. It was a very real change in the small area. The aunt who was assaulted tried to take a picture of one of the flags so that people would understand who was there. They were the green and white flags from NMR, and they also wrote about this on their website.

An organized government cooperation with a party that in recent history has sprung from Swedish militant racism and fascism plays a role. Many people in Sweden are worried about what is now being seen.

I hear what Anna Wallentheim says about what she has been subjected to, and I can count off hundreds of young women and active politicians in my own movement and in other movements who, in recent years, have become increasingly exposed in digital environments.

I have a folder of my own where I have collected things that Jimmie Åkesson describes as satire and humor. I will post it at some point, so we will see if the Minister of Justice agrees with the description.

Do you really think the government is doing enough? Does the Minister for Justice not think that your cooperation affects how you behave? I think it does.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Anna Wallentheim (S)

Madam Speaker! I would like to begin by thanking the Minister for the response, both in the written communication and regarding what has been presented in the Chamber.

Just as the Minister mentions in the written [statement], there are several real threats to Sweden that we must take seriously. It is organized crime, it is terrorism, and it is violent extremism.

The new national strategy against violent extremism and terrorism clearly constitutes an important tool, and it is important measures that, among other things, authorities shall be able to work with so that we can put a stop to this.

What worries me is that right-wing extremism tends to end up a bit in the background and is perceived by many as not being as important. It is there that I hope we will get a clear answer from the Minister and from the government that it is just as important that we work with these types of issues.

I always choose to interpret people kindly. I think it is important in politics that there shouldn't be so much bickering. It is also one of the things I hear from the younger generation when I meet school classes. They think it is a bit too much sandbox, and I think it is important that we as politicians can stand up when we think alike on issues.

What I hear the minister say here today is that this is viewed as seriously as other types of extremism and the other real threats to our democracy. I hope that it is also recognized that these threats occur in both physical and digital spaces. I truly hope that we will see a government that takes a stand on these issues.

I intend to continue meeting school classes as long as I have the privilege of being in this house and having this assignment. I will be honest about the threats that actually exist against politics. I must tell students what it actually means to be a politician. But I will always emphasize that it is never okay to threaten, intimidate, or silence opponents, and I will always stand up for the fact that this is the most wonderful assignment one can have. I love being a member of the Riksdag, and I will not let myself be intimidated.

I am sure that the Minister shares my view of how incredibly important it is to stand up for democracy and that one continues to move from words to action.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Justitieministern Gunnar Strömmer (M)

Madam Speaker! The starting point for my own work and the Ministry of Justice's work, and for the government's work when it comes to combating violent extremism, are the assessments made by the authorities responsible for these issues.

I fully and completely stand behind the assessments made by the Swedish Security Service, which have, among other things, been expressed in the annual report that Mattias Vepsä referred to. It is also the state of knowledge that has been guiding when we designed the strategy I mentioned, i.e., the merged strategy regarding work against terrorism and violent extremism, because there is now an insight that the overlap is so close and that there is, particularly in the preventive work, a great gain in thinking about those threats in one and the same context.

The picture of the problem that Mattias Vepsä describes when he refers to Säpo's annual report also characterizes the systematic approach in the strategy. It is also unambiguous there that what Mattias Vepsä raises, i.e., the risks in a dynamic where different extreme directions trigger one another, is an important starting point in the work. It is also an important starting point for the assignments that we have given to authorities by reason of that strategy. Those assignments are not directed at one thing or the other but aim at the fact that this recurs from several different sides, but also that these are environments that to a large extent trigger one another.

If one looks at the development of events after Hamas's terror attack against Israel on October 7 and looks at what it has done in the extremist circles, it becomes quite obvious that these circles, so to speak, reinforce each other. Ironically, they could first end up at the same demonstrations and be united in a kind of hatred towards Israel, but after that, it has become a more polarized dynamic where they also trigger each other.

I want to confirm that description of the problem but also emphasize that that insight and others are the starting point for both the strategic work and the very operational work that stems from the assignments I mentioned.

The question is whether we can do more. I would say that if we can achieve full breakthrough for this strategic approach and the concrete assignments, which are very operational in their character, it means that we as a society will move the positions forward significantly against all extremist environments.

I also know that it was a broad process when we developed this strategic grip, where we of course included relevant authorities but also Kommunsverige, academia, Forskarsverige and civil society. If we can get all that power behind these measures, we as a society will move the positions forward significantly.

Since then, it is clear that the type of events we saw at the end of April and during May 1st, namely the physical violence and the fact that it steps forward in that way, underscores the importance of moving forward positions also regarding the security and safety for individual politicians and, for that part, other opinion leaders, but also for the contexts where people meet and form opinions.

I note that an important conclusion in the meeting I referred to, which we had with, among others, the party secretaries from all eight Riksdag parties after these events, was precisely the message from the police and the Security Police to truly have a tight relationship between parties, as we spoke about then, and between the organizers and the police, in order to be able to obtain a current risk assessment and be able to take security measures that are judged to be appropriate and necessary in the concrete case.

With joint efforts, I am convinced that we can do very much to move the positions forward, push back the perpetrators of violence, and safeguard our free and open society.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Mattias Vepsä (S)

Madam Speaker! It must be clear and distinct when we leave this chamber that there is one person in Sweden who bears the greatest responsibility for ensuring that this strategy against terrorism and extremism is fulfilled, and that is Justice Minister Gunnar Strömmer. Possibly Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson shares this responsibility – then, of course, with the entire government.

I am pleased that Gunnar Strömmer stands behind the strategy to counter terrorism that we have discussed here today. The Minister also said at Folk och Försvar that this would not become a feel-good exercise. This would lead to action, and this would protect us.

Strong resilience against false information, rumors, and disinformation is one of the goals in this strategy. That being said, and with reference to the fact that it was said at the meeting held after the attacks on May 1st that we shall jointly stand up for our free and open society, I wonder how that squares with a party's systematic use of secret posts on social media and a so-called troll factory that has been revealed this week.

For everyone watching and following this debate to understand the extent: These are not two or three young guys who do not know what they are doing. It concerns 13 accounts on TikTok, 3 on YouTube and 3 on Instagram with 260,000 followers who, during only the first few months, published 1,000 posts with 27 million views.

We have talked here about that one should not accept disinformation, subversive activity, or hate, threats, and intimidation from the far-right. How does that square with the fact that you cooperate with the Sweden Democrats, whose organization works in exactly that way? I want an answer to this today. Does the minister and the government have confidence in Jimmie Åkesson's Sweden Democrats, or will you shut down the troll factory? It is in line with the strategy.

(Applause)

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Justitieministern Gunnar Strömmer (M)

Madam Speaker! I thank you once again for the opportunity to discuss these important issues today.

I think it is extraordinarily important to keep both the thought and the debate clear when we talk about these issues. There is no doubt whatsoever that conspiracy theories, anti-government narratives, and disinformation create a breeding ground for things that can escalate into extremism which in the end can become violent. At the same time, I believe it is extraordinarily important not to let that insight cause us to mix up the cards when we speak about extreme political violence.

It is, after all, the case that what we saw, for example, when Nazis committed serious crimes and when violent Islamists killed a number of Swedes in Brussels last autumn, is something that must be met with the full force of the rule of law and that should not, so to speak, be leveled or relativized in the light of other things which in themselves are also serious but which are still not the same thing as the violent extremism we speak of when we speak of the threat from the violent Islamist environment or the right-wing extremism.

With this said, there is also no doubt that what we are now talking about, especially troll factories and anonymous accounts spreading disinformation or the type of narratives discussed in the Security Service's annual report, is not something we can accept - regardless of which parties engage in it. I am old enough to remember a number of quite serious disinformation campaigns against politicians in M, for example against Fredrik Reinfeldt in 2006, which were orchestrated from a Social Democratic side. Let us jointly counter that type of opinion-forming under a false flag, which is intended to undermine trust in the free and open society.

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

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