Response to interpellation 2023/24:761 on the two-state solution

Utrikesministern Tobias Billström (M)

Madam Speaker! Ola Möller has asked me how I mean that Sweden's abstention at the vote in the UN General Assembly, on whether Palestine should be granted full membership in the organization, favors a two-state solution.

As Möller points out, Sweden abstained in the vote on May 10, 2024, which primarily concerned expanded observer status and procedural aspects regarding Palestine's status in the UN. This was in line with like-minded countries such as Finland, the Netherlands, and Canada.

In order for a basis for sustainable peace between Israel and Palestine to be laid, a negotiated two-state solution is required. This was unfortunately not reflected sufficiently clearly in the General Assembly's resolution. The Government considers that the steps towards Palestine's full membership in the UN should not only be symbolic but be part of a two-state solution, where Israel and Palestine can coexist in peace and security. A negotiated two-state solution, with firm anchoring in international law, with Jerusalem as the capital for both states, is and remains the only sustainable path towards peace and security in the entire region.

The development in Gaza after the terrorist organization Hamas's horrific terrorist attacks against Israel nearly a year ago has led to unimaginable consequences for the civilian population. The government supports the initiatives being taken to urge the parties to accept and implement the peace plan presented by the USA, including an immediate humanitarian ceasefire and the release of hostages. This would also contribute to reducing regional tensions as well as enabling expanded and more secure distribution of humanitarian aid to those in need in Gaza.

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Ola Möller (S)

Madam Speaker! In 2014, the Social Democratic-led government recognized Palestine as a state. Foreign Minister Billström has, during his two years as responsible for foreign policy, defended that recognition and stood up for it against the right-wing radicals within the own government base. This, of course, the Foreign Minister should be praised for. I understand that it is not easy to explain either international relations or diplomacy to that group. But the minister should be honored for this.

That is why I was surprised when the Foreign Minister abstained in the vote at the UN this spring regarding Palestine's membership and expanded rights. It becomes completely incomprehensible. It is a sovereign state that we have recognized – why then not choose to vote for it? It is also a state that needs all the support it can get because, according to the ICJ, it is de facto occupied by another state. By not showing up and supporting Palestine in this, one denies Palestine's right to be an independent state, which does not favor the two-state solution.

One can reflect on the aggressor in this case. For over 300 days, Israel has attacked Palestine this time. One hardly began that attack on October 7, but the latest escalation occurred then. Year in and year out, Israel has in different ways and to different degrees destroyed and made it impossible for a Palestinian state to exist. They have expanded the settlements - illegally. They have blocked Gaza - illegally. They have denied and humiliated the Palestinians - as a land, as a people, and as individuals. They have not allowed them their human rights.

It is exactly as the UN Secretary-General has previously said: things do not happen in a vacuum. Therefore, votes in the UN, even if of a symbolic nature in the General Assembly, also become immensely important.

After Hamas's heinous and violations of international law attack against Israel - the terror group's attack can never be defended or legitimized, and they still hold the hostages captive - the bullets, bombs, and death have fallen incessantly upon the Palestinian people. That Hamas does not release the hostages and promises to cease its attacks against Israel is a disgrace and only prolongs the suffering of the Palestinian people. It shows why Hamas in no way is a movement that wants well for the Palestinian people and that Hamas is an obstacle to the two-state solution. But without a dance partner in the death dance that is ongoing, one named Benjamin Netanyahu, this would never continue - a prime minister whom the ICC's prosecutor has requested be extradited for crimes against humanity.

Madam Speaker! In light of this, it is completely incomprehensible that Sweden chooses to betray the Palestinian state's pursuit of full membership in the UN. How it can be denied that international law stands on the side of the Palestinian people, I do not understand. The argument that Minister Billström is putting forward here is that if an opponent, an occupier, is strong enough and if the bombs are large enough, one can deny a sovereign people their right to be a part of the international community.

I do not think that is a reasonable argument. Therefore, I want to ask the question to Foreign Minister Billström why he and the government in this case do not act against the occupying power that denies the Palestinian people their sovereignty and freedom.

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Nadja Awad (V)

Madam Speaker! It is a fucking shame that Israel can carry out a genocide and an occupation right before our eyes without Sweden's government doing anything to stop it, but instead seems to do everything to sustain it.

The government acknowledges that tens of thousands of Palestinians have died, including thousands of children, and that the human suffering for the Palestinians is enormous. But, Foreign Minister Tobias Billström, how are the Palestinians dying? Who is killing them? Who is causing the human suffering for the Palestinians? Say something about Israel's 76-year occupation of Palestine! It is completely inconceivable that one can refuse to speak the truth.

Terror has been made into a legitimate tool by Israel. We have never seen anything similar in modern history, and Sweden's government is not even angry about what we are seeing.

Day by day we see how the Palestinian people, who have nowhere to flee, are being bombed in places they have been displaced to by Israel, denied medicine, water, anesthesia and food. Palestinians are forced to pick up their loved ones' body parts in plastic bags! Does the Swedish government think that is okay? Is it okay that one finds bound Palestinian children who have been buried alive in mass graves or Palestinian children who have been imprisoned and who testify to hunger, abuse, sexual assault and torture? Palestinian men are tortured in prison and raped with pipes so that their lungs are damaged. Palestinian women are forced to undergo C-sections without anesthesia. Obviously, the government thinks it is okay, because who is trying to put a stop to this?

Israel's finance minister says that it is justified and moral to starve two million Palestinians. Israel's defense minister calls Palestinians human animals who should be treated as such. Netanyahu denies the Palestinians' right to a Palestinian state. Is this really who Foreign Minister Tobias Billström's government wants to ally with? Is it who the government defends – a bunch of child murderers, extremists and criminals?

Palestinian children are being starved, raped and murdered, and Israel is ultimately responsible. Does Tobias Billström think that one is allowed to do this to children? Is it allowed to rape and murder children? Are these the values of the minister and the government?

It is these extremists that the representatives of the Tidöregering have traveled to and visited with our tax money. It is this terror militia that the government's representatives have posed with in pictures and that the government even wants to deepen relations with.

What is wrong with this government, Madam Speaker? It is obvious that the Swedish government is Israel's little lapdog. The government is lapdogs to child murderers, extremists and criminals - not defenders of our fundamental human rights.

This government will not push for any sanctions against Israel, nor will it work to stop Israel's occupation or even work for a free Palestinian state, because it does not care one bit about Palestinian lives and rights.

My question is therefore: How can the Swedish government and all members of the Riksdag who in some way defend Israel ally themselves with child murderers, extremists, and criminals?

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ANDRE VICE TALMANNEN

I want to urge the members to use more refined language in the chamber. We do not usually use swear words.

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Lorena Delgado Varas (V)

Madam Speaker! I thank Nadja Awad for the clarity.

First of all, a greeting to the Palestinian movement, which is peaceful but which has to endure hatred and violence, including through the terror attack in Borås.

We live in a time when we Democrats clearly need to stand up for people's freedom and civil rights. In this, we need to strengthen the international work. We need to strengthen the peace work and the international agreements. One can think a lot about the UN, but it is our international forum for, among other things, human rights.

We have as a country recognized Palestine. Should that not mean that we should work for Palestine to get full membership in the UN? It was embarrassing, to say the least, that Sweden was one of the few countries that did not vote for Palestine to get extended status.

The Minister supports the US peace plan, a plan which, among other things, has abandoned the proposal for a ceasefire and instead proposes a humanitarian truce. It also does not require the Israeli military to leave Palestine. It requires that the hostages held by Hamas be released - that is good - but it mentions nothing about the Palestinian hostages. Does the Minister believe that such an agreement will be sustainable?

The biggest problem is and has been that Israel has had total power over Palestine. Palestine has not had its rights respected. The Israeli government has several times announced that it will level Palestine with the ground and that Palestine will not exist. Israel commits war crimes time and again and does not respect international law.

If we want to achieve a solution, Palestine's power and voice must be strengthened, in words and in actions. It requires that we stand up for Palestine's rights. It requires an arms embargo, and it requires that real demands be placed on Israel, with real consequences. A country cannot commit such despicable crimes without any consequences whatsoever.

No one here can pretend that they do not know how people in Gaza and on the West Bank are being murdered or how prisoners are being tortured, raped, and murdered in Israeli concentration camps, even children. When will Sweden work to stop this? When will Sweden act against Israel? And when will Sweden become the international voice for humanity? Not under this government, in any case; that has been shown time and again. One is completely silent in the face of the slaughter of small children in Gaza. It is a disgrace.

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Eva Lindh (S)

Madam Speaker! Women and children are almost always particularly affected in crises. This is also the case in Gaza. More than 1 million people are living in a humanitarian emergency. There is a shortage of everything: food, water, sanitation, healthcare, electricity, and a home to return to. People are dying, suffering, and feeling a great sense of helplessness.

The majority of those killed in Gaza are women and children. More than 17,000 women and children have been killed since the war began in October. We know that female-led households have poorer access to food and other resources. Nearly nine out of ten women have more difficulty than men in obtaining food. Nearly 1 million women and girls are fleeing in Gaza without access to sufficient support. Pregnant women are also particularly vulnerable. They are forced to undergo C-sections without anesthesia.

All this gives a picture of how the situation actually is on the ground. The risk of violence, especially against women and girls, is great. In overcrowded refugee camps, the risk of sexual harassment and sexual and gender-based violence increases.

Now the population also lacks hope for the future. This is also important when one lives in a tough situation.

Sweden is a part of the international community. Sweden's voice is also important. We cannot say that Sweden is one among others when we act. Our voice is important. If we lay down our voice or it doesn't matter.

Therefore, all of us who are here must also take responsibility for asking what people actually wonder. In this case, I know that many who are on the ground in Gaza are particularly looking at Sweden, because people have – or had – hope. The question must therefore be answered, Foreign Minister: Why do you vote as you do, and why do you not give the little hope that can still be given? Now, it must come to a ceasefire. The situation must be resolved, but on the way there, important signals are also essential to perhaps give a little hope for a future. All that I have mentioned is appalling and should cease, but signals and politics are also important in this situation.

(Applause)

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Utrikesministern Tobias Billström (M)

Madam Speaker! I would like to thank the participants for their questions in the debate.

Palestine has had the status of non-member observer state in the UN since 2012. The resolution from May 10 means that Palestine receives certain expanded rights as an observer in the UN. For example, Palestine will now be placed among the member states at UN meetings, in alphabetical order. Palestine also receives the right to make statements on behalf of a group in the UN, the right to present amendments to resolutions and the right to join as a co-sponsor. Palestine still does not have the right to vote in the General Assembly and cannot run for UN bodies. All this taken together shows that the resolution therefore primarily concerns procedural aspects regarding Palestine's participation in the UN.

As I pointed out in my first post, the government believes that the steps towards Palestine's full membership in the UN should not only be symbolic but should be part of a political process that can lead to a two-state solution, where Israel and Palestine can coexist in peace and security. Since the resolution did not sufficiently clearly reflect the necessity of a negotiated two-state solution, Sweden, like several other like-minded countries, chose to abstain.

I want to emphasize that Sweden's recognition of Palestine and the support for a two-state solution has not been changed by our vote on this resolution. I have previously accounted for the government's view on and approach to the decision that the then Social Democratic government made in 2014, which the interpellator Ola Möller also touched upon in his contribution. The vote in the General Assembly was not about this, but rather about in what order the steps should be taken to reach a two-state solution.

The resolution of 10 May was submitted to the General Assembly against the background of the USA's veto on 18 April against a Security Council resolution on full Palestinian membership in the UN. I can state that the General Assembly resolution of 10 May contained an appeal to the Security Council, where the issue is to be addressed first, to address the issue again. It is, however, a fundamental prerequisite that there is support in the UN Security Council for both a two-state solution and full Palestinian membership in the UN.

Some of the questioners have also wondered about the government's broader policy in this area. Let me first and foremost emphasize the necessity of an immediate ceasefire. The European Council and the UN Security Council have long been clear on this, and so has Sweden, given the dreadful situation in Gaza, which several of the participants in the interpellation debate have touched upon.

Sweden supports the efforts that have been made during the recent months by the mediators - USA, Egypt and Qatar - to reach a ceasefire and has urged the parties to accept the proposal that President Biden presented on 31 May. This involves a complete ceasefire in a first phase of six weeks, which shall transition into an agreement on a permanent ceasefire in a second phase. The release of the hostages, Israeli withdrawal and the reconstruction of Gaza are also central components in this proposal.

If the proposal is approved by all parties, it gives hope that an end to the war in Gaza can be reached. It is important that the conditions for the Palestinian Authority to regain control of Gaza are ensured. This is an issue that needs to be clarified within the framework of continued negotiations. Neither continued Israeli occupation of Gaza nor continued Hamas rule is a sustainable alternative. The long-term goal must be, and is for the government, to achieve this between Israel and Palestine within the framework of a credible process toward a negotiated two-state solution.

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Ola Möller (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you again for the answer, Minister for Foreign Affairs! And thank you to all participants in the debate! It is pleasing that there is such a great commitment here in the chamber for this issue.

I notice that we are not making any progress on the issue of the UN vote - I have heard what the Foreign Minister says. We agree on how terrible Hamas is and how wrongly they act, so we can also leave that there. What we, however, do not agree on is the aggressor, the occupier, how we should act against them and what they actually seem to be doing.

October 7 and what has happened since have no parallels in modern history. It is difficult to find similar examples. The active killing is occurring not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank, in Lebanon, and in other places around. We see that illegal blockades are being carried out, and this has been ongoing for a long time. We know that people are being denied life's necessities and even protection; people are denied the right to avoid having a bomb in their heads. People flee to schools, hospitals, and refugee camps.

There is often talk of 40,000 dead now, a terrible figure. But a month ago, an estimate was published in The Lancet where they actually pointed out that there could be 178,000 dead – that was a month ago. It is 7.8, 9 percent of Gaza's population who have died from the consequences of the war of aggression that is taking place. Furthermore, we have hundreds of thousands of injured. It is an entire population suffering from PTSD, and everyone has had family, relatives, and friends murdered.

This is no coincidence. It is no accident. It is no workplace accident. It is a deliberate strategy that has been used. They blow up water systems. They burn down olive groves. They let people loot food transports that are supposed to go in and help those in distress. They bomb places on the West Bank where there is no trace of Hamas supporters. They let this happen. Ministers stand and hand out automatic rifles to people so that they will do this.

It is a systematic approach. We have previously heard here about the violence against Palestinian prisoners, but it is nothing new. This is Israeli apartheid on steroids. This is the consequence of decades of dehumanization. There are people, fascists, in the Israeli government who dehumanize people to the extent that they are animals, and animals can be treated in this way. This is a degeneration of civilization and humanity.

Here we are unable to act with more than words. What I see is a genocide. In that case, we have obligations according to conventions that we have signed. But I am thinking of us as human beings, when we look at this in the light of history. What did I do during this time? What did I think? I can ask myself if I managed to stand up for that ounce of humanity that it means to see the other and think: I do not have to think like you. I do not have to feel like you. I can be the exact opposite of you. But I stand up for your right to exist.

People misquote Voltaire regarding opinions. I would die for your right to think. But here it is about getting the right to live. The Palestinian children have done nothing wrong other than having happened to be born in hell on earth.

If Sweden's government fails to act against this with more than words, I am ashamed of this country.

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Nadja Awad (V)

Madam Speaker! We all know why this government refuses to take the fight against Israel's occupation and genocide. They are lapdogs to child murderers, extremists and criminals. Shame on this government.

An arrest warrant has been requested against the murderer Netanyahu. A decision was reached that Israel's occupation is illegal and that Israel must prevent a genocide.

Neither the Swedish Prime Minister nor the Swedish Foreign Minister has commented on this. This government even sponsors the genocide by buying and selling war materiel with Israel. In the midst of the genocide, a weapons deal is signed with the Israeli company Elbit Systems for 1.7 billion kronor. This is in addition to the fact that the government has previously cast its vote against a ceasefire in the UN. They refuse to help terminally ill children from Gaza despite the EU's plea.

Why is Sweden involved in and supporting the ongoing genocide, Billström?

The government has the nerve to speak about Israel's right to defend itself. Israel is an occupying power. To occupy, rape, murder and starve is not self-defense, Tobias Billström. It is genocide practices.

But when the slightest crime occurs in other places, because it just happens to involve white Europeans, you are quick on the ball and condemn it. In Borås, when a terrorist drives into a Palestinian demonstration and injures about twenty people, not even Sweden's Prime Minister condemns the attack.

Madam Speaker! Israel must be held accountable for genocide. Israel must get out of Palestine and return stolen land, and the Palestinians must be granted the right to return. As long as the government follows the order of international law, it continues to stand on the side of child murderers. It has blood on its hands.

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Lorena Delgado Varas (V)

Madam Speaker! I find it interesting that the two-state solution is being raised as a requirement for the Palestinians' full membership in the UN. It is not Palestine that is occupying - it is Israel. It is not Palestine that is committing genocide - it is Israel. So with that logic, Mr. Billström, perhaps it is that Israel should not be a member.

Now over 20,000 children have been murdered. And according to The Lancet, which Ola Möller highlighted earlier, the figure of those murdered is probably closer to 186,000 - children, women and men.

The weight of the bombs that have fallen over Gaza is greater than the total weight of the bombs that have fallen in all other historical genocides.

The International Court of Justice has spoken and demanded that Israel and the settlers must immediately leave Palestine and that justice must be served for the crimes that have been committed.

Minister Billström speaks about international law having weight in the solution for Palestine and Israel. But how do you handle a state that occupies and commits genocide? It cannot be by continuing to contribute to Israel's economy and supporting their weapons industry or signing agreements with Elbit Systems in the midst of the ongoing genocide. It cannot be by consistently justifying the murders by saying that Israel has the right to defend itself - as Nadja explained, they collect children in plastic bags. And it cannot be by giving free passage to the Swedes who have actually participated in war crimes and genocide in Israel against Palestine over the years. There, I have not seen the government act at all. Those individuals are allowed to return freely to Sweden.

I can only state that the government is not doing what is required. It is about sanctions, about arms embargoes and about boycotting Israel.

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Eva Lindh (S)

Madam Speaker! Let us once again go back to thinking about, just as several here have touched upon, what this situation is actually about. Men, women and children are being murdered. They live under horrific conditions, and women and children are particularly affected in crises.

My point in my contribution was that in this it is important to send a little, little hope, signals that there is a possible future for the people who are suffering.

It is of course very good that the Foreign Minister states the continued support for the state, the recognition of Palestine and also a two-state solution. But what we are talking about here is the additional signal that the Foreign Minister and the Swedish government gave when they cast their vote.

I perceived that the Foreign Minister explained this by saying that they do not want to stand behind symbolic actions. I do not remember exactly how the Foreign Minister expressed it, but I believe that we actually know that symbolic actions are important for sending signals.

We know that a silenced voice does not mean that the crisis and the killing will now cease. But signals are important. It is about signals that there is hope and a belief in the future and that Sweden is actually to be a contributing part in that. How is the Foreign Minister to continue after this in order to give some hope and some belief?

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Utrikesministern Tobias Billström (M)

Madam Speaker! The war in Gaza following the terrorist organization Hamas's horrific terrorist attacks against Israel nearly a year ago has led to unimaginable consequences for the civilian population and has also caused an increased level of tension throughout the region with the risk of a larger conflict. The Government views the increasing escalation both between Israel and Hezbollah and between Israel and Hamas, as well as the increasing tensions between Israel and Iran, with very great concern. The Government urges all sides to show restraint. Through joint diplomatic efforts, we can counteract continued escalation and further spillover effects in the region.

The Government considers it important to support well-considered initiatives that can calm the situation and reduce polarization. The work to persuade the parties in the Gaza war to accept and implement the plan that has been presented by the USA, which includes an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, increased access for humanitarian aid, and the release of hostages, must continue. This I have conveyed directly to both the foreign ministers of Israel and Palestine, as well as in talks with other regional actors. Yesterday's announcement that Israel is said to accept the mediators' latest proposal for a ceasefire is, of course, pleasing. It is now up to Hamas to accept the proposal, so that the fighting ceases, the hostages are released, and the catastrophic humanitarian situation can be reversed.

At the same time, we need to look beyond the acute crisis situation and take measures that can lead to a genuine peace process. This includes stopping recurring cycles of violence, addressing the underlying causes of the conflict, and contributing to increasing trust between Israelis and Palestinians. Hamas, which has been listed as a terrorist organization by the EU for over 20 years, must cease its acts of violence. The government supports and actively participates in the work for further restrictive measures against Hamas that is ongoing in, among others, the EU's member states. For example, the EU has adopted several decisions on sanctions against leading representatives of Hamas, and a special sanctions regime has been established after October 7 last year in order to be able to limit the terrorist organization's financing in a more effective manner.

All Palestinian groups that wish to play a role in a future Palestine must - as the Palestinian Authority has done - distance themselves from violence and terrorism, recognize Israel's right to exist and adhere to the agreements that have been entered into with Israel on the Palestinian side. Israel must, on its part, stand firm on the two-state solution and cease its settlement policy, which violates international law, undermines the two-state solution and contributes to an elevated level of conflict.

The claim that the government is not taking measures in these respects is incorrect. Sweden has, among other things – I am looking at the list that exists – been clear with its demands for respect for international humanitarian law. We have demanded that Israel respect and follow the decisions from the International Court of Justice. This concerns the decisions on provisional measures that the court has adopted this year in South Africa's case against Israel. The court has, however, not decided that case on its merits.

We have also actively worked for the listing of extremist settlers within the framework of the EU's sanctions regime. We have given support to an association council between the EU and Israel to convey clear messages. We have also conveyed clear messages to the Israeli government regarding our demands for respect for international humanitarian law as well as humanitarian access and regarding the humanitarian situation in Gaza, as well as expressed our concern over the offensive in Gaza. Together with the international community and the EU, we have openly demanded that Israel must halt the offensive in Rafah in light of its humanitarian consequences. Together with the international community and the EU, we have given clear support to the roadmap for a ceasefire and sustainable peace that has been presented by the USA and "endorsed" by the UN Security Council.

All of this is naturally important measures, Madam Speaker. It is not enough - we need to continue to keep up the pressure. But the one who says that the government is not active in this issue is not telling the truth.

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ANDRE VICE TALMANNEN

I want to remind members who are in the chamber as observers to remain silent when the person in the speaker's chair is speaking.

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Ola Möller (S)

Madam Speaker! I am fundamentally a sociologist. In sociology, one speaks clearly about the difference between saying things and acting and doing things. We know, Tobias Billström, that the government says many things. That is very good. That is what one should do. But the words are not filled with action. There are no sanctions, but had it been North Korea, sanctions would have rained down. No boycott is taking place, but had it been Iran, it would have been boycotted. No form of stop for exchanges has occurred, but had it been Russia, one would have thrown out every cultural worker - and so on. In the case of Israel, Sweden chooses not to fill the words with action. It is not the activity, but the actual consequences of the activity that we criticize. This is important to remember.

But there are many who should be criticized. I think, for example, that the USA and the Biden administration should be ashamed. You cannot tell the Palestinian people that they should accept continued occupation and then continue to sell weapons to the occupier, who the next day will continue to attack the West Bank. It is not sustainable. I hope that Kamala Harris will not only be tough in words but will actually also dare to take some kind of action, in contrast to the Swedish government.

I have no more questions for Foreign Minister Billström. The time for that is over. The questions have been asked. What will now decide is what is done, the action—how the words are filled with actual consequences for the party that occupies the other in violation of international law. Above all, I think everyone should look at themselves in the mirror and reflect: What did I do during the time when what history will call the genocide in Gaza took place?

(Applause)

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Utrikesministern Tobias Billström (M)

Madam Speaker! I thank the interpellor for the interpellation. How the somber development in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is to be reversed is a question that has no simple answer. Fundamentally, it is about the Israeli and Palestinian sides having to come to the realization that a negotiated two-state solution is the only sustainable solution, that it lies in both Israel's and Palestine's interest, and that the alternative, namely continued violence and conflict, serves no one's interests.

Therefore, it is positive that the dialogue between the parties regarding the US roadmap has resumed and that Israel is to have accepted the latest proposal. The ball lies now, as mentioned, with Hamas. A humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza is also a prerequisite for de-escalating the situation between Israel and Hezbollah as well as for achieving a more lasting relaxation in the region as a whole.

The government strongly believes in the importance of diplomatic engagement and the work to reach a peaceful solution. Sweden and the EU, as well as the international community at large, need to adhere to a clearly international law-based policy as the basis for continued efforts in relation to both parties. Israelis and Palestinians have an equal right to live in peace and security and to enjoy human rights. This is an important and significant issue that, in my opinion, cannot be repeated enough times.

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

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