Response to interpellation 2023/24:799 on the work against fraud
Translated from Swedish by AI; the translation may contain errors. The Swedish text is the original.
Summary AI, written in advance
M considers the counteraction of fraud to be a high-priority issue and that the government is working to break up the criminal economy 1. M believes that the banks need to do more to increase security and that the government wants the actors to take responsibility 1 2. M emphasizes that the blame lies with the fraudster, not with the customer or the bank 2. M urges people to review their own protections and settings 3. M considers that the banks must make customer adaptations to prevent people from quickly swishing away large sums 3. M welcomes the work at the EU level for information exchange but emphasizes that the trust of the bank customers must be protected 4. S considers that the banks' measures are not sharp enough and that the banks should compensate those who have been defrauded 5. S believes that bank customers must not be regarded as responsible for frauds 5. S considers that the banks must take responsibility and that the crime victims need better support and advice 6. S wants the government to quickly implement the European Parliament's proposal that the banks should become liable for reimbursement 6.
Written by AI in advance and may contain errors. The numbers lead to the speech a statement builds on; check against the text below.
Statsrådet Niklas Wykman (M)
has asked me how I and the government intend to deal with the frauds, what measures I intend to take within my area of responsibility to increase the care and support for crime victims, and whether I will work to ensure that the Swedish government acts in the interest of bank customers based on the European Parliament's proposal.
Countering crime is one of the government's highest priorities. This applies in particular to crime in the financial system. Dismantling the criminal economy is one of the goals in the national strategy against organized crime, and the strategy contains several measures that are of importance in the work against fraud.
The vast majority of frauds presuppose that criminals misuse products and services provided by the banks. As part of the government's work against fraud, the Prime Minister, the Minister for Justice, the Minister for Finance, and I myself held a meeting in February with representatives from the banks and the Police Authority. At a follow-up meeting in May, the banks presented their proposed measures, and the Police Authority has stated that they view the proposals positively. The government will follow up to ensure that the banks' measures are implemented and have an effect.
Parallel to this, the government continues its continuous work of analyzing the need for stricter laws and regulations in order to strengthen the security of bank customers. The supervisory authorities' work is also an important part of the work for consumers' security.
Regarding compensation in the case of unauthorized transactions, that is, transactions carried out without the account holder's consent, the account holder is liable for the entire amount in the case of unauthorized transactions if he or she has acted with gross negligence. The Member States in the EU may, however, limit the account holder's liability under certain conditions.
According to Swedish law, a consumer is liable for the full amount in the case of unauthorized transactions if he or she has acted particularly culpably. If the consumer has acted grossly negligently, he or she is instead liable for an amount corresponding to at most 12,000 kronor.
The Government has tasked the Swedish Financial Supervisory Authority (Finansinspektionen) to report on how the authority conducts supervision of the banks' fulfillment of their obligations to counter fraud. The Swedish Financial Supervisory Authority states in its report that the banks need to do more to counter fraud. Among other things, the products and services need to be developed to increase security. To streamline the supervision, the Swedish Financial Supervisory Authority also intends to review the collection of statistics on fraud, operational risks, and security risks in order to make it more uniform.
The EU's payment services directive is currently subject to negotiations within the EU. The Government is positive towards the regulatory framework being reviewed and welcomes the European Commission's approach to combating fraud. The Government considers that the rules on liability for unauthorized transactions should be designed so that a high level of consumer protection is ensured, and the Government intends to monitor that the rules on the distribution of liability between payment service providers and customers receive an appropriate design. Sweden is actively participating in the Council working group meetings that are currently ongoing.
Anna-Belle Strömberg (S)
Mr. Speaker! I thank Niklas Wykman for the answer.
This interpellation should have been answered on June 19, but because the Minister Wykman was double-booked according to the office, the debate was moved to today's date. But the issue is as current today as it was before the summer break.
Just as the Minister says, the government and the Swedish Bankers' Association have presented a package of measures, and we Social Democrats agree that it contains many good proposals. We consider, however, that they are not sharp enough, and there are several question marks.
What we are primarily concerned about is the time perspective. That it should be possible to introduce time delays on certain transactions, set amount limits on payments, and be able to make changes in a secure way are very good proposals. However, the banks could have launched time delays on transactions much earlier. Furthermore, the Swedish Bankers' Association says that this is to be introduced successively in the different banks. Then one can ask: What does that mean? When will all bank customers be able to be protected? But perhaps even more importantly: If a consumer does not choose lower amount limits and is defrauded, who takes the hit? How will the banks ensure that all their customers are actually sufficiently informed to protect themselves in the best way? We know, of course, that there are consumers who have difficulty managing their digital banking affairs themselves.
It must not be the case again that bank customers can be regarded as liable for frauds, as is the case in many instances today. People's life savings may have gone up in smoke, and the feeling is that neither banks nor society have stepped up. They feel betrayed and often completely helpless. Not even the National Board for Consumer Disputes has been of any major help because the blame has been placed to such a great extent on the individual and not on the system.
The major banks' dividend payout is more than a hundred times larger than the 700 million that bank customers were defrauded of during 2023, so the banks should have been able to compensate those who lost their life savings. We cannot let the banks continue to blame the customer, demand more information, and think that everyone should be prepared, suspicious, and well-read. Think of all those who never asked to manage their affairs digitally but were forced to because the bank branches were closed and the manual service was scrapped.
It is good that the government is pressuring the banks. But as I said earlier, it could have gone faster.
In the United Kingdom, banks are required to publicly report fraud cases, and there, the customer's bank and the fraudster's receiving bank are allowed to share the compensation to the customers, which is a good incentive to solve the problem from both sides.
Mr. Speaker! What does the Minister think about the British system? Could it be feasible in Sweden for both the customer's and the fraudster's bank to share the compensation to those who have been deceived?
Statsrådet Niklas Wykman (M)
Mr. Speaker! First and foremost, thank you to Anna-Belle Strömberg for this interpellation! It is genuinely important that this is discussed. It can only be agreed that more should have been done earlier. One can devote oneself to distributing responsibility in different ways. But when it comes to combating crime, one can state that society should have acted in many different ways much earlier. This applies to this area as well.
Mr. Speaker! Now, I do not think that Anna-Belle Strömberg and I are so much in disagreement actually, but I still intended to take the liberty of engaging in a bit of polemic. Let me say, so that there is no misunderstanding: The blame does not lie with the one who is deceived. The blame does not lie with the bank either. The blame lies with the fraudster. This I believe we are completely in agreement on, but it must still be crystal clear that the blame belongs with those who try to exploit people or the system to commit crimes.
During the time I have followed these issues, I have encountered the most bizarre – I don't know if that is the right word here – cases. It is an enormously ruthless activity where, many times, the most vulnerable people in society are targeted and various types of weaknesses in our systems, financial, legal, or police-related, are exploited, not only to rob people of their money but also of their honor and dignity and the last bit of trust and confidence in society and fellow human beings. It is a loathsome criminality that we are facing.
Mr. Speaker! It is also important not to decouple this. It has not occurred in a vacuum.
Indeed, that is the case - and I completely agree with the interpellor in that regard - that a global change has occurred that is not only related to crime or the emergence of gangs or a harsher social climate. A digitalization has occurred, just as the interpellor speaks of in their contribution. There has also been a development where not as many banks have a local presence.
The fact that one might shop at the same Ica store as those who work at the bank has gradually eroded and changed. Nowadays, many of one's services are handled digitally. In this way, the bank's personal knowledge of the customer has changed, and the banks have tried to replace it with customer knowledge through forms and so on.
The problem is that the protection system that one has partially tried to replace the old personal meeting at the bank branch with has many weaknesses. It has been exploited. These two things in combination – that we have become more digitized in combination with the fact that the banks are no longer as present in various local communities as they once were – have created gaps in the system overall. Here, neither the regulation nor the crime fighting has been sufficient.
Banks have over time been able to make large profits through digitalization. They have become more efficient and so on, but sufficient measures have not been taken to address the security vulnerabilities.
I can return to everything we do concretely in a later post, but the main choice is about – in addition to us supporting and participating constructively in the work with the new EU regulations that are to be put in place – getting the banks and, for that part, also the police and others who work with this to step forward and take their share of the responsibility.
After the measures we have taken, we now see that the banks are stepping forward. They are beginning to take responsibility. Gradually, things can be implemented that make it harder for criminals in the financial system. More will need to be done here. But the choice is about forcing the actors to step forward, take responsibility, and do the right thing.
Anna-Belle Strömberg (S)
Mr. Speaker! Thank you for the answer, Minister Wykman! I would like to return to my question regarding what measures Minister Niklas Wikman can take to increase the care and support regarding crime victims.
It is a terrible shame to be defrauded and deceived, just as Niklas Wykman was pointing out. Many relatives feel a great deal of anxiety, and this crime creates a lack of trust in the entire society. Therefore, we must support those who have been subjected to fraud, whether it concerns romance scams, some other type of social manipulation, or whether they are deceived into believing that it is a bank, an authority, or a healthcare facility contacting them, or some other organization.
Mr. Speaker! In my home municipality of Örnsköldsvik, during the month of May, I was able to read in the local newspaper Nordsverige and also take part in SVT Västernorrland's segment about Tom, 78 years old in Husum, who had been defrauded twice. I was able to comment on Tom's situation in both the newspaper and in SVT Västernorrland.
Just over a year ago, Tom was defrauded by online scammers. He received a phone call from the bank's phone number stating that there was a risk that someone was trying to log into his account. He received instructions on how to save his money and logged in. And just like so many others, when he entered the last digit, he got the feeling that it might be something suspicious. But by then it was already too late. The screen went completely black. In a matter of minutes, his savings were gone. The scammers had then obtained 378,000 kronor. The debt has now grown every day because he has not been able to pay his bills on time and must wait until the pension arrives. As a result of this, the bills go to the Enforcement Authority and debt collection.
Now he has been cheated again. In the spring, he had a savings account with 11,600 kronor. That money was supposed to go towards the bills. When he contacted the bank to pay the bills, there were only a few cents left. The bank says that he has logged in and transferred money to someone else's account, which he has not done.
Now Tom feels that society has failed him. He is completely drained, and the debts are growing. There is nowhere to turn. In the media in the spring, he said this: There is no hope. Now I am completely abandoned by society. I don't know if I have any reason to keep living. I am totally drained, and it is terribly humiliating and depressing.
The Enforcement Authority is now proceeding and attempting to collect the money, even though it is obvious that the loans were obtained by someone forging his name. But, pleasingly, Tom informed SVT Västernorrland yesterday that he had won in two of the instances. But several instances still remain.
The banks make millions in profits, and the small individual completely lacks value, as Tom says.
Mr. Speaker! My question to Niklas Wykman is: In what way can these crime victims be strengthened and protected when they have been subjected to fraud? It is also about the shame and the feeling of having contributed to being deceived oneself. In what way can we strengthen the victims, and should higher requirements on the banks, further legislation, or other regulations be considered? It is about getting a final system in place as quickly as possible to protect these citizens. This was what the minister touched upon in his previous contribution. How are we to strengthen them and protect them in their well-being?
Statsrådet Niklas Wykman (M)
Mr. Speaker! First and foremost, one would wish that more had been done earlier by the banks and also that the state had closed various gaps earlier, that we had had more police resources and in other ways could have countered this crime with force. Now we can only dig where we stand and work our way forward.
As the member is aware, I cannot comment on the individual case in any way. However, I can state with sadness that it unfortunately is not about individual cases in the sense that they are few. There are very many tragic stories here, where the victims have either been caught in some form of broad fraud attempt or where ruthless, despicable individuals have sought out some of society's most vulnerable and committed this type of cruelty against them. The money is important in itself, but obviously, the security, the trust, the shame, and other factors are perhaps equally important for many people.
It is important that the people who have been affected and have the strength to speak also tell about this and that the stigma is broken. This is important in itself to remove the shame.
The interpellator asked about amount limits and different types of security measures. I can only urge everyone to review what type of protection they have and what settings they have.
Something that can contribute to breaking the stigma and increasing understanding is the fact that all people can be deceived. Of course, there are groups that are more vulnerable and whom criminals can turn towards, but there are always situations where almost all people are vulnerable to being deceived in different ways - a rainy October day after a difficult call from the health center when you are going to pick up from the preschool and there is general chaos in life and you just want to move on and get this over with, for example. Therefore, it is important that these measures from the banks are rolled out in a broad way.
We will, of course, closely monitor how the banks handle this during the time ahead. Whether they manage to do so and whether they make customer adjustments is, of course, the key to this. When one reads about some of these cases, one wonders who has requested a banking service where a person can quickly Swish away tens of thousands of kronor, even though the person normally only uses their bank account to pay bills and perhaps give a few hundred kronor in Christmas presents to the grandchildren. Suddenly, the person can carry out international transactions in the tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of kronor range. There is something here for the banks to work on to do something about this.
We are also actively working on a number of things to sharpen how the system functions and make it resilient. In the long run, it is the best way to stand on the side of the crime victim, to ensure that one cannot be deceived in this way. I have already told about the assignment to the Finansinspektionen and what result it has had regarding statistics collection and other matters.
Since we took office, we have had a special working group between the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Justice working through proposals in this area. I have met with the large telecommunications companies which have an important part in this because it is often phones and SMS that are used for these scams. We have given a mandate to the Swedish Post and Telecom Authority regarding spoofing and number manipulation, which are often used, as the interpellator pointed out. We have an investigation looking at reinforced protection for personal data. We are preparing the reinforced criminal protection for the elderly, so that this type of crime can be regarded as serious and in that way result in stricter penalties. We have worked with the investigation on improved information exchange with banks, and we have a national strategy against organized crime, where crimes in the economic sphere are included.
Mr. Speaker! More police, stricter penalties and the meeting we have had with banks and the police - I could continue in this way to list measures we are also taking alongside the increased requirements and the expectations we have on the banks.
Anna-Belle Strömberg (S)
Mr. Speaker! I thank the Minister for the answer.
It is clear that sharp legislation and a broad package of measures are required in order to strengthen the security of bank customers, which we completely agree on. The banks must take their responsibility. Even Finansinspektionen notes in its report that the banks must do more to counter these frauds. But it also requires, as we were touching upon, better care for the crime victims. Those who are subjected to frauds need to receive support and advice, even with the shame they feel.
The European Parliament proposes that banks should be liable to reimburse customers who have been deceived by fraudsters, regardless of whether the fraudster claimed to be from a bank, a tax authority, or from any other organization.
Mr. Speaker! It is the government that has the power now and can legislate in this matter and work to act in the interests of the bank customers based on the European Parliament's proposal.
As I interpret the Minister's answer, the government is positive about the regulatory framework being reviewed and welcomes the EU Commission's approach to combating these frauds, which pleases me. But now the government needs to increase the pressure and actually do something in good time and quickly. There are very many good proposals, but they need to be put into practice as soon as possible.
In conclusion, I would like to thank Minister Niklas Wykman for a good debate.
Statsrådet Niklas Wykman (M)
Mr. Speaker! Let me begin with the work that is ongoing at the EU level. It is a central matter for Sweden to secure a good exchange of information to prevent this type of fraud from occurring. It is necessary to be able to share information in a good and smooth way. Sweden is working intensively for that. We are also working, as I said in my response, to ensure that it is well-balanced and has a high level of protection for consumers. It remains to be seen what the exact design will result in, but we therefore welcome that such work is ongoing at the EU level. We participate actively in that work so that it becomes as good as possible.
Mr. Speaker! Something that I think is worth raising, so that one does not just think that this is very simple, is that there are some pitfalls here that one needs to watch out for. One such is the legitimacy of the system.
One must not stretch the bank customers' trust in the system. There are all those bank customers who take their responsibility, who fill in all the blocks and are very vigilant. They might think: "I do everything I can, and then I have to share the cost for everyone else. Should my money go towards that?"
We are not there now, but we must weigh in the aspect that there must be incentives to do the right thing and that those who do the right thing should not be negatively affected and have to pay for other types of crime that exist in the system. It is something that must be considered.
Even heavier, and something that must be given some attention, is a system where all frauds are automatically compensated by the other bank customers - here, of course, there are also risks. We had previous discussions about trade-offs and how things can be exploited in other ways. One must also be careful that those who want to commit frauds do not get additional opportunities within the system to empty it of money by entering into collusion with each other: One of the criminals can be the crime victim and another the perpetrator, and together they deceive the state or the bank or the bank customers.
Of course, it is possible to design rules that avoid this type of situation, but I still think it is worth emphasizing, Mr. Speaker, that it is this somewhat complex matter that one needs to navigate. There must be drivers to do the right thing. It will also be required that one is responsible as an individual. But one must also not rig a system that allows people to join together and cheat the system out of money. This must be countered effectively and new mistakes must not be made. Hence this very broad approach.
I am fundamentally convinced that we ultimately have a broad political consensus on this. Then, technically, it can be a bit difficult to do it.
Source: The Swedish Parliament. The speeches come from the open data of the Riksdag, translated into English by AI, which may contain errors.