Response to interpellation 2024/25:511 on electricity prices in southern Sweden

Energi- och näringsministern Ebba Busch (KD)

Madam Speaker! Niklas Karlsson has asked me what concrete measures the government and I are considering taking in the near future to mitigate the effects of high electricity prices in southern Sweden and to ensure that business competitiveness and household finances are not undermined by uneven price levels. Niklas Karlsson has also asked me about any additional talks and negotiations the government and I plan to have with other member states or the EU Commission to reform the overall European electricity market model and better adapt it to the different production conditions of the member countries.

There are several reasons for the higher electricity prices in southern Sweden compared to northern Sweden. One reason is the European dependence on fossil energy for electricity production as well as on gas. Another important reason is the decommissioning of nuclear power and combined heat and power in southern Sweden, which has created a shortage of dispatchable electricity production. This shows that the design of the electricity system, i.e., where electricity production occurs and electricity grids are built, is crucial for our electricity prices. Both a more even distribution between electricity production and electricity consumption in all parts of Sweden and a high and stable transmission capacity within Sweden are needed.

The focus of the government's policy is therefore the expansion of fossil-free planned electricity production and reinforcements of the electricity grid within Sweden. Sweden needs a secure electricity system with high security of supply to safeguard competitive electricity prices regardless of the global situation.

The Government considers that today's electricity market design is primarily expedient and that the focus should be on member states complying with and implementing already decided legislation to ensure both security of supply and more reasonable electricity prices. But in addition to increasing security of supply, a crucial part is that member states with internal bottlenecks also establish efficient electricity zones because it affects other member states. This is what the Government repeatedly highlights at the EU's energy minister meetings.

A review of electricity zones is currently underway in Europe, in which Sweden, but also among others Germany, is included. The review is being conducted in accordance with a common European regulatory framework and is expected to shed light on how a correct division of electricity zones throughout Europe could look. The actions of our neighboring countries affect electricity prices in Sweden.

Despite periods of high electricity prices, electricity prices in Sweden have been among the lowest in the EU in comparison. But the government's work is far from finished, neither within Sweden nor when it comes to contributing to the EU having an energy policy that strengthens cooperation within the union. More and broader measures are needed and will be presented moving forward by the government.

Against the background of the energy policy direction proposition adopted by the Riksdag, the government is working on a number of measures aimed at strengthening the possibility of connecting more companies to the electricity system and enabling a robust, secure electricity system that delivers electricity at competitive prices where it is needed, when it is needed. The government's realignment of energy policy with technology-neutral energy policy goals, where all fossil-free types of power are welcome, intends to benefit citizens, households, and companies throughout Sweden.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Niklas Karlsson (S)

Madam Speaker! As is customary, I shall begin by thanking the Minister for Energy for the answer.

In the interpellation, I have requested what the government explicitly does or intends to do to alleviate and remedy the high electricity prices that both people and companies are affected by in southern Sweden. What the Energy Minister delivers in the Swedish Parliament is, in principle, only general, long-term, and sweeping answers.

Indeed, the Minister for Energy mentions, among other things, the expansion of planned electricity production and the reinforcement of the electricity grid, which is of course good. But in all honesty, these are projects that take many years to realize, this in a time when private households and companies in southern Sweden are suffering under high electricity prices. For us people in the southern counties and Scanians, this is of little help right now.

Madam Speaker! There is hardly any better description of the Minister's response, even if it was perhaps expected, than that it is a great disappointment. Of the concrete measures I call for in the government's work, we see nothing in the Energy Minister's response. But of course, not even the government's Energy Minister can perform miracles. When the policy is thin, the rhetoric follows suit.

Madam Speaker! I also asked a question about how the government is working to influence the electricity market model at the EU level. The Minister answers that the model is essentially expedient but says at the same time that the government repeatedly raises the issue of electricity areas and price differences within the Union.

This becomes a bit contradictory. If the government thinks the design works, why are they seeking to influence it? Furthermore, no information is provided on how these conversations are conducted, what proposals Sweden is pushing forward within the framework of the review, or what the government is actively doing to adapt the system to the national production conditions, which was the core of the second question. Nor do we get any time horizon here for when a potential change could occur.

Madam Speaker! That the Minister for Energy is also trying to downplay the seriousness of the issue by referring to the fact that electricity prices in Sweden have been among the lowest in the EU is, frankly, at the very least provocative for all those people and companies who see sky-high electricity bills in their mailboxes every month simply because they live in the wrong part of the country. It is like telling someone who is freezing that there are others who have it worse. It hardly helps.

I mean, Madam Speaker, that the government's responsibility must be to ensure that the whole of Sweden has reasonable and fair conditions, not to compare us with other countries in order to avoid taking action.

Let me state, Madam Speaker, that what is required is political leadership. Measures are needed in the near term that actually make a difference for the people and companies affected here and now. Openness and clarity are required regarding how Sweden acts at the EU level to reform a system that today obviously strikes unfairly.

Madam Speaker! I regret the government's response. I also regret all the people who live in southern Sweden, in electricity price areas 3 and 4, and all the companies that are suffering under high electricity prices and operating under unequal competitive conditions in our country.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Adrian Magnusson (S)

Madam Speaker! A cost crisis is underway in Sweden. One does not always notice it when one has received a new fat tax cut at the beginning of the year, but that is the case. Food prices are skyrocketing, and many are finding it difficult to make ends meet in everyday life.

In my part of the country, in the southernmost part of Skåne, electricity prices are a major topic of conversation that characterizes many conversations at breakfast tables, lunch tables, coffee tables, and dinner tables. It becomes particularly clear when everything else has become so much more expensive, not least the food that one must put on the table.

I recently met the Ystad Pensioners' Council, which consists of representatives from the various pension associations PRO, SPF, and SKPF, and I received a lot of questions regarding specifically electricity prices. One could not quite understand how the price difference can be so large in the same country. Why should those who live in Ystad or in a village outside Ystad town pay so much more than those with exactly the same conditions who happen to live in Boden or in Luleå? I had no good answer to the question of why we have a system with such different electricity prices for people who live in the same country. I could not explain why it needs to be so, that is, that there should be one electricity price in Ystad and another electricity price in Haparanda.

These electricity areas do not exist everywhere. Germany does not have that type of system at all. Just as Member Karlsson mentioned, the Minister appeared in her response to express that she was satisfied with the electricity market model. It works well as it is, even though in the next step it is said that one receives calls about the model. But the electricity area systems obviously do not work. There are times when the electricity price is several hundred percent more expensive in Ystad compared to Haparanda, and that is, to say the least, unreasonable. Above all, it is very difficult to explain.

The meeting with the Ystad Pensioner's Council, that is to say, the representatives for the pensioner associations, developed into a workshop-like activity. It was said in the pensioner organization that there are things produced in Skåne that are not produced elsewhere in the country. Butter is produced in Skåne. Perhaps there should be different areas for butter; the butter should be 100 percent more expensive in northern Sweden than in southern Sweden. Grain crops perhaps should be more expensive somewhere else. I, who come from the edge of Österlen, can claim that apples should be 100 percent more expensive in northern Sweden than in southern Sweden. That would have been tolerated or accepted by no one. But in this case, it is considered reasonable. Based on the Minister for Energy and Industry's answer, it appears to be the case that she thinks the electricity market model works.

There are many questions that can be asked, and the answers are missing in today's interpellation debate. But I give the minister the opportunity to elaborate on his answers. Does the minister think the electricity price areas are reasonable? What is the minister and the government actually doing in concrete terms to review them? Is one sitting on one's hands and letting Brussels decide on the issue?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Linus Lakso (MP)

Madam Speaker! Now it may be heard from my dialect that I am not a Scanian, like the previous speaker, but I nevertheless have great sympathy for all Scanians and all those living in SE4 who are affected by unreasonably high electricity prices. I am aware of the fact when one's regional problems are not taken seriously enough by the central power in Stockholm – that we have in common from north to south.

The high electricity prices in SE4 specifically have several different causes. One is that Germany has not divided itself into electricity price areas, and now the minister says that pressure is being applied for this. That is good, and I wish more were being done. Fundamentally, the electricity price areas are also about physical facts that we need to take into account. They cannot be the only solution, but the primary solution needs to be to build out both more capacity and more energy quickly in SE4. The government is failing in both.

The government has in practice stopped offshore wind power by withdrawing Svenska kraftnät's assignment to expand the offshore grid. Following that reversal, Vattenfall announced, among others, that they are pausing the expansion of Kriegers flak, which could provide many cheap kilowatt-hours into SE4 and lower the average electricity prices in Skåne. Then, not least the Christian Democrats, together with the other Tidö parties, stop between 70 and 100 percent of the onshore wind power when they get the chance, by using the municipal veto. Skåne's power commission has stated that both onshore and offshore wind power are important parameters for lowering electricity prices.

But more power is also needed. Even there, for example, Skåne's power commission and also Miljöpartiet's proposal on how one can achieve more power within the next 20 years. It is about higher power and more flexibility in combined heat and power, gas turbines, and batteries. Even there, the government essentially lacks a policy. There is a little splashing in the budget, but the money is completely insufficient to seriously level out and lower electricity prices in Skåne.

I have a specific question for the Minister for Energy regarding getting the offshore wind power established. The Clean Industrial Deal is now underway. Quite recently, a draft of council conclusions was hammered out, signed by the Prime Minister, where they actually encourage the member states to approve exemptions from the state aid rules more quickly, in order to expand renewable energy faster.

Svenska kraftnät now has 65 billion on its account. These are funds whose purpose is to level out electricity prices between electricity price areas and de facto lower electricity prices in specifically SE4. Svenska kraftnät's CFO says that they are frustrated that the money cannot do more good. What is required is that the government as soon as possible applies for exemptions from the state aid rules so that Svenska kraftnät can use the money. Regardless of specific mandates from previous governments, their mandate is to level out electricity prices with the help of these funds. One such proposal could be to expand the offshore grid to bring in large amounts of cheap energy.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Joakim Sandell (S)

Madam Speaker! I thank Niklas Karlsson for the interpellation and the Minister for the answer. I had intended to focus a bit on the second question in the interpellation, namely what is being done at the European level.

In December last year, the minister expressed that she was furious with the Germans, partly because the country has not been divided into electricity zones. It might have been easier for a Christian Democratic minister to be furious with the German government when it was a Social Democrat who was Federal Chancellor, but now a new government is on its way where the Christian Democrats' Merz will become Federal Chancellor.

The German Christian Democrats consist not only of the CDU party but also of the CSU, that is, the Christian Democratic Party in Bavaria. It would be interesting to hear the Minister's reflections on the probability that the new government would establish electricity price zones where one part of the Christian Democratic Union, namely the CDU, would set higher prices for the other part of the Christian Democratic Union, namely the CSU. You are party comrades, and it might be easier to get electricity zones through in negotiations with a party comrade than with a Social Democrat.

If Germany were to introduce electricity price zones, it would reasonably mean that there would be a difference within Germany regarding the price of electricity.

If one looks at German industry, one sees that it is largely located in the southern parts. German industry faces very large challenges today, not least linked to the automotive industry due to competition from, among others, China. Getting the German government to agree to divide the country into electricity price zones, given the situation its industry is in today, I do not think will be easy considering that it would result in more expensive electricity in the southern parts of Germany.

And given that it is one of the government's answers on how we are to get lower prices in southern Sweden, I wonder how likely the Minister considers it to be that Germany will actually introduce electricity price zones, according to what has been agreed upon in Brussels. Or does the Minister believe that Germany will protect German industry and German cohesion rather than a liberal model for electricity prices?

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Anna Wallentheim (S)

Madam Speaker! I signed up, rather late, for the debate because I believe that we need to highlight the consequences for Swedish households even more.

Länsförsäkringar produced a report on exactly how household costs have increased in connection with the price differences. One of their analyses showed that a normal-sized family with children from Malmö, due to high electricity costs, had to pay 57,000 kronor extra during 2022 – 57,000 kronor extra just because of skyrocketing electricity prices. That is more than what many pay in rent for an entire year.

The county administrative boards have also warned that something called energy poverty could soon be a reality in Sweden, especially for families with children in southern Sweden and especially in Skåne. Families cannot afford to have a sufficiently warm home, to let the children continue with extracurricular activities, or even to heat food.

I have been in contact with both Majblomman as well as Rädda Barnen and Bris regarding these issues. Majblomman signals that they have never previously received as many applications as they have now received, partly due to the skyrocketing electricity prices. Families with children and children submit that they wish for an extra blanket because it is cold at home. And Bris reports that they are receiving more and more questions from children who wonder at what age they can start working, because they are so worried about the family's finances.

Therefore, I would like to ask the Minister for Energy and Business how she views energy poverty and what is being done to prevent this for families with children in southern Sweden and, above all, in Skåne.

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Energi- och näringsministern Ebba Busch (KD)

Madam Speaker! I would like to thank you for the great commitment to the issue.

There are some disparate threads here. I want to start with that which perhaps was not the purpose of Niklas Karlsson's interpellation but which certainly has bearing on this issue. I truly agree with the description of the effect for Swedish households and Swedish companies, perhaps not least when I hear Anna Wallentheim describe the situation for many families with children and that many children also worry about and want to take responsibility for the family's situation. It is something that I truly see.

But this is the result of a deliberate policy under red-green rule to shut down planned power production in southern Sweden. That is what the red-green government and several of the red-green representatives in this room today asked for. This is what you have given the Swedish people. I think it is incredibly stomach-turning to be upset and surprised by it.

Madam Speaker! It is noticeable who understands energy issues and who does not. Linus Lakso and I do not agree on everything, but Linus Lakso knows what effects it has had that much nuclear power has disappeared, regardless of what one thinks about it. Linus Lakso knows what effects it has had that so much combined heat and power has disappeared. That 3,000 megawatts of combined heat and power has disappeared from the system has been significantly under-discussed.

I truly sympathize with the need to obtain more green base load, as the Miljöpartiet calls it. Linus Lakso requests more focus on combined heat and power, gas turbines, flexibility, and transmission capacity.

We draw different conclusions as to whether things are happening in this area. And I think that it has relevance for Niklas Karlsson's fundamental question. In recent years, the government has decided on almost 70 measures that affect southern Sweden. It concerns investments of several hundred million kronor in Kraftlyftet to secure power where it is needed, i.e., to get more power out of all the electricity produced in southern Sweden.

We have a pilot project underway with just gas turbines to release more power for industries, i.e., guaranteed electricity. We have streamlined the connection queues for heavy companies that have requested electricity from the system. Öresundsverket is maintained. The red-green government did not manage to deliver that. I and my government managed to deliver it. Hydroelectric power gets better conditions here and now. And in June, this chamber has the opportunity to decide on long-term and stable conditions for existing and new nuclear power.

It can also be noticed whether one can distinguish between electricity market design and electricity price areas. I am not satisfied with the electricity price areas. Let me be very clear now. That it is incredibly much more expensive in southern Sweden compared to northern Sweden is a scandal. It hampers Swedish competitiveness. It has caused Sweden to lose tens of thousands of jobs for many years now. But the solution to this is not more of what has led to the misery we are in now.

Bottlenecks are physical limitations in the grid. But that being said, we mean that we have taken several measures that should make it possible to review the electricity price areas. We hope that the EU will come forward with a proposal during the spring. We have been very clear about what we think of the miserable situation that currently prevails in Sweden and how we wish to change it.

In this speech, Mats Sander (M) agreed.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Niklas Karlsson (S)

Madam Speaker! It was still somewhat entertaining to see the Energy Minister's staged distress.

There is talk of 70 measures. Still, we see no effects, I think. I meet business owners and people in Skåne and southern Sweden daily who experience these high electricity prices and who have to choose between paying the electricity bill or having food on the table.

The Minister for Energy can say whatever she wants in the Swedish Riksdag. And the Minister for Energy can make whatever decisions she wants in the Swedish government. But when it doesn't have an effect, when people do not experience it and when people still have to live with the high electricity prices, it is worth nothing.

In the best of worlds, we could have converted the Minister for Energy's beautiful words and fine descriptions into energy and transported it to Skåne. Then the problems with energy production would not have existed there. Now that is not possible, and we need decisive action. The task of politics must be to drive change. One cannot hide behind descriptions of what has been or what decisions have been made, when they yield no effect.

How are companies in southern Sweden supposed to compete on equal terms with businesses in other parts of the country when their electricity bills are several times higher? In Malmö, Pågens bakery is located. They are now moving to Landskrona. They fetch their flour a few miles outside the production facility, transport it to their ovens, and bake bread in ovens that are heated at Scanian and southern Swedish electricity prices. At the same time, they are to compete with Polarbröd in Älvsbyn, which bakes its bread at electricity prices that are many times lower.

It is not strange that people react. It is not strange that companies become upset when we have a government that neither wants nor can do anything about this. References are made to decisions that have no effect. What does it matter?

Another example we could read about in Dagens Nyheter recently. The Halland paper mill Hylte Paper now has 60 employees being laid off due to resignation. The CEO says: "Had we been located north of Gävle, we would have had 200 million kronor less in electricity costs per year."

The high electricity prices mean that industrial activity in southern Sweden becomes a high-risk project. Therefore, one cannot take responsibility for the entire country. Measures that yield results and decisions that mean something are required. More than staged outrage in Sweden's Riksdag is needed. One really needs to demonstrate a difference and manage to take the political leadership and make the decisions that are necessary.

During the month of December, electricity prices increased to the same levels as in 2022, at times reaching 5 kronor in Svealand and Götaland, while at the same time they were 2–3 öre in Norrland. February this year became the most expensive electricity month in southern Sweden since 2022. This list of examples can be made longer, both regarding private households and regarding companies.

No, it is not enough to talk about the history. It is not enough to highlight the problems. It is not enough to assert one's own excellence and refer to 70 measures taken when they do not yield results. Priorities and political will are required. Something better than what the government delivers today is required. If the Minister for Energy truly takes the concerns of the people of Skåne seriously and truly wants to do something about this, one must also be able to achieve something better.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Adrian Magnusson (S)

Madam Speaker! I and the Minister for Energy and Industry have debated different types of electricity issues in different contexts. It is approximately the same methodology every time. If one questions the Minister for Energy and Industry, one does not understand. If one questions the Minister for Energy and Industry, one does not understand. And the Minister for Energy and Industry is always equally upset. It is the same methodology every time. Actually, I believe I could have written the Minister for Energy and Industry's speech and handed it over to her for her to then read out and tell exactly what would be said in her next contribution.

So far we are getting no clear messages – I am not getting them at least – about what is concretely being done to influence the construction of the electricity areas. Someone has been upset at some meeting somewhere and said something. But we get no other answer as to what is being done to review the electricity areas in the country. We are therefore getting no answers as to why it needs to be the case that electricity prices are much higher in Ystad than in Boden. Maybe we will get it further ahead. This is my last contribution, so I guess I will simply have to wait and see. But I note that the Minister for Energy and Industry, who is always satisfied, who always blames someone else and who always knows everything and knows everything. It is the same methodology as usual.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Linus Lakso (MP)

Madam Speaker! I thank Ebba Busch very much for the answer. But we are probably not entirely in agreement, Madam Speaker, on whether the government's policy for effect yields any effect – without trying to use wordplay. Significantly more powerful initiatives are needed to achieve results. That I can state.

Above all, I do not agree that it would be sufficient with just power, as Ebba Busch is trying to pretend. We also need to bring in many cheap kilowatt-hours to lower the electricity price in SE4. That is where the shoe pinches, and it is here that I lack the answer to my question. Miljöpartiet has submitted a proposal for a committee initiative to the Committee on Industry where we urge the government to urgently apply for exemptions from the state aid rules, so that the 65 billion that are on Svenska kraftnät's account – those are funds that the people in Skåne and the others in SE4 pay in – for the purpose of being able to equalize the prices between electricity price areas shall be put to use, for example by connecting offshore wind power and in that way bringing in many cheap kilowatt-hours that lower the electricity prices in SE4.

It is a very concrete question. I hope that the Minister can provide an answer on this today. If not, I hope that her party and the Tidö parties vote yes to our initiative on Thursday to get the issue under control. This is completely unreasonable, when there is so much money. We have a problem that needs to be solved. But we need to give Svenska kraftnät the opportunity to use these funds in the right way.

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Joakim Sandell (S)

Madam Speaker! I interpret the government's attempt at a solution to the problem of the high electricity prices in southern Sweden as being, firstly, that there should be more predictable energy production. We all know that it will take some time. Secondly, the Minister usually mentions the electricity regions in Germany in his answers. Last time, I asked whether the Minister believed that there would be any result from the talks that the Minister is having with Germany or via the EU, but I did not receive a proper answer.

My fear is that Germany will not do anything about this and that we will therefore, during this mandate period, continue to have the large differences in electricity prices between southern Sweden and northern Sweden. But I would like to have an answer to the question of how the Minister views the work with Germany – or in this case, perhaps against Germany.

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Anna Wallentheim (S)

Madam Speaker! The large price differences between the electricity zones are not only a technical and economic issue but also a question of regional justice. Skåne and southern Sweden are systematically disadvantaged by the current electricity price structure. This is something that has been highlighted and has been widely criticized, not just here in the chamber. It has been criticized by the County Administrative Board in Skåne. It has been criticized by business owners and children's rights organizations. When southern Sweden, year after year, receives significantly higher electricity prices than the rest of the country, it also undermines the trust and cohesion in our country.

Madam Speaker! No part of Sweden should be left in the cold – literally. It is our responsibility as politicians to ensure that the electricity supply and pricing do not tear our country apart or leave the weakest in darkness.

Madam Speaker! It is high time that we do something about this. It is nice to hear the Minister say that she understands and that she is aware, but very little result comes out of it. Still, it is the case that families with children and companies have it significantly tougher in Skåne than in the rest of the country. We need to dampen the unreasonable electricity costs. We need to compensate the households that are hit hardest. We must equalize the regional price differences. Something must happen that leads to results. In my world, it is so that no child in Sweden should have to grow up in a cold home or with parents who are forced to choose between putting food on the table, paying the electricity bill, and ensuring that the children can practice a sport.

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Energi- och näringsministern Ebba Busch (KD)

Madam Speaker! I will try to continue.

One can accuse me of feigned outrage if one wishes. But I find it almost difficult to put into words the feelings I have regarding the fact that one deliberately weakened Sweden's competitiveness, deliberately pushed for a situation that results in electricity prices that go up and down like a yo-yo and are generally much higher in southern Sweden than in northern Sweden, and is now surprised by the result. For ten years, we have discussed the problem that large companies and industries cannot connect in southern Sweden because it is difficult to get guaranteed power. Speaking of power – we have lost a very large amount of guaranteed electricity that was there and was needed in Sweden.

Madam Speaker! I find it interesting to hear Pågen mentioned as an example. I was down and met Pågen and several other heavy industries at a round-table discussion regarding the power shortage in southern Sweden. I am pleased that Pågen is now going to build Europe's largest and most modern bakery in Landskrona. But when I was at the Sydsvenska handelskammaren and met a number of CEOs for electricity-intensive industry in Skåne, they were clear. They know what the cause is, and it is the lack of guaranteed electricity. We have a huge amount of electricity on certain days, but that does not mean that, for example, chemical companies or bakeries that need electricity often and evenly distributed throughout the year can connect.

We have not succeeded in solving that equation. No one in the whole world has succeeded in solving the equation that one can move electricity production not just for a few minutes in time, but in some cases even between months and seasons.

It is still fascinating that people stand and complain that we have a system that is so heavily wind-based and then wonder: Why do we have problems when it is not blowing? We have a system that is solar-based, and then one wonders: Why do we not have electricity when the sun is not shining?

We will work with flexibility, energy efficiency, and storage. But the large units that we are talking about here cannot be fully compensated for. Some of that goes back to the 90s.

The four electricity price areas we have today date back to 2011. We were reported after we, among other things, had shut down Barsebäck. We then had a price impact on Denmark that the EU considered was not okay. That is the background to the electricity price areas we have today.

When we discuss this in the chamber, I want to be clear that what is desired is to level out electricity prices in Sweden. This means that northern Sweden will get much higher electricity prices.

I believe that if we can take more measures in the short term, medium term and long term – it is about more storage, district heating, gas turbines and other things coming in, and more nuclear power – then we can begin to level out the situation somewhat.

Then the comment was made about "no effect." We have succeeded in pushing down the electricity price for four years in a row. It is the nearly 70 measures that we have decided on that have had an effect. I am far from satisfied because the prices are still so volatile and generally speaking too high.

Without those measures, one would have paid 3,000–4,000 kronor more for a regular villa. That is what one did in Niklas Karlsson's Sweden. One might have paid 28 kronor in diesel price. Now we have pushed it down to 16 kronor. A large part of that is due to political decisions. It certainly makes a difference.

I want to speak about Germany in the next post. I have to see if I will get there, Joakim Sandell, but I will try.

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Niklas Karlsson (S)

Madam Speaker! The best way for the Minister for Energy to show that the indignation is not feigned is to deliver better results than what has been achieved so far. You report 70 measures in the Swedish Parliament, but they do not have particularly great significance.

What the Energy Minister does not speak about are the decisions he has made that have hindered electricity production in Sweden. On November 4, the government decided that 13 offshore wind power projects in the Baltic Sea would not be allowed to be built. It was then subjected to monumental criticism. The Swedish Defence Research Agency argued that there are deficiencies in the Swedish process and that there are solutions used in, for example, the United Kingdom, Denmark, and Poland, but not in Sweden.

The former Minister of Defence Mikael Odenberg, who was Minister of Defence in Reinfeldt's government and subsequently Director General of Svenska kraftnät, called the decision nearly catastrophic and bordering on self-harming behavior. A dead hand is being placed over an entire industry in the whole Baltic Sea while other neighboring countries are planning the expansion of offshore wind power.

It is possible if one wants to. If one wants to, one ensures that it happens. The list of proposals can be made longer. If the Minister for Energy wants more tips, I am happy to help, either in the chamber of the Riksdag or over a cup of coffee. The Minister for Energy can choose for themselves.

What we have not spoken about today and which there is reason to return to, something that the Energy Minister also expressed a wish about, is Germany. This concerns in particular the fact that we import German prices.

But the Minister for Energy can rest easy. She can put a mark in the calendar already. We will also return to that issue.

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Energi- och näringsministern Ebba Busch (KD)

Madam Speaker! First and foremost: We are not playing Russian roulette with Swedish security. I would have gladly had the opportunity to say yes to the 13 offshore wind farms. We have turned and twisted this over in detail with the Swedish Armed Forces many times.

The type of offshore wind farms that are being discussed in Poland, Denmark, and particularly in the United Kingdom do not have a direct line of sight to Russia, which is currently conducting a full-scale war of invasion on European soil.

We have exhausted everything. What lobbyists within the wind power industry say weighs lightly against that type of very heavy review from the Armed Forces.

With that said, we are taking an enormous number of measures to pave the way for wind power both offshore and onshore, something that the red-greens never managed to do. We are moving forward with the Value of the Wind, with several good ideas from the previous red-green government.

We are creating incentives for the municipalities to say yes to a greater extent. We are now reviewing the incentives generally for weather-dependent power production. It is about providing incentives to get more power out of all the electricity that can be produced there.

We need to have it in order to be able to push down the prices. But we also need to have more guaranteed connectable electricity. Here I believe that we can do a lot together.

The Germans are now getting a Christian Democratic and Social Democratic government, it seems. I have good hopes that we will thereby also solve many of the difficult issues that Germany needs to solve.

I believe that Joakim Sandell makes a very correct assessment that it will be extremely tough to get Germany to introduce electricity price zones. It would be right and proper, given that they have decommissioned 170 terawatt-hours of dispatchable power production in recent years. We will continue to make our voices heard even with the Christian Democrats in Germany.

Thank you for the interpellation, Niklas Karlsson!

In this speech, Mats Sander (M) agreed.

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)