Response to interpellation 2024/25:531 on democratic development in Syria and the protection of minorities

Utrikesministern Maria Malmer Stenergard (M)

Madam Speaker! Johan Büser has asked me what measures Sweden intends to take within the framework of the EU and the UN to support a democratic Syria and ensure that the new government respects human rights, and what resources and aid efforts Sweden intends to mobilize to support civil society and democratic institutions in Syria, with a particular focus on the inclusion of minority groups.

As Johan Büser notes, the situation in Syria is volatile and fragile. It is in the interest of Sweden and the EU that the recently inaugurated transitional government is able to manage the many and difficult challenges it faces. To this, Sweden and the EU are ready to contribute.

That is why Sweden, together with other EU countries, continues to be clear regarding the expectations for the transitional government. The rights of all Syrians, including women and ethnic and religious minorities, must be respected in a peaceful and inclusive transition process. The perpetrators of the horrific wave of violence at the beginning of March must be held accountable. It is the new government's actions – not words – that will be decisive for international support. This is something we and the EU are very careful to point out.

Sweden has consistently supported the Syrian people over the years, both in Syria and in other countries in the region. The Government wants this commitment to continue.

In addition to humanitarian efforts, Sweden provides significant aid to Syria. In this, civil society has been an important partner for Sweden, including in efforts that contribute to, among other things, increased equality, human freedoms and rights, as well as democratic development. This aid is now being adapted to best support the population in the difficult task of building a free and democratic Syria for all Syrians, regardless of religion and ethnicity.

The government also contributes to the discussion on how the EU can support a positive development in Syria, including through aid. The importance of this was underscored, not least at the international Syria conference in Brussels in mid-March, where the EU pledged 2.5 billion euros in support to Syria and other countries in the region.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Johan Büser (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Minister for Foreign Affairs, for the answer to my interpellation!

I have met many people from Syria who live here in Sweden. Some have become close friends of mine. Others I have met in conversations with the diaspora, where there has often been a double feeling: the relief over the safety here, but also a deep worry about what is happening in the country they have been forced to leave.

It is for their sake – and for Syria's future – that we must talk about Syria here in the chamber, not as a conflict far away but as a reality where 7.2 million people today are in acute need of humanitarian aid, where a month's salary sometimes only suffices for two kilos of meat, where children grow up in ruins and where people who have tried to return have been forced to flee again, not because they were persecuted but because it is not possible to survive in the homeland.

Madam Speaker! The international sanctions that have existed and that today exist against the Syrian government have a purpose: to hold those responsible to account. But we must also dare to speak about the consequences that the sanctions have. The Red Crescent, which provides 80 percent of the humanitarian aid in Syria, testifies that the money does not arrive. The banks refuse. The bureaucracy stifles the aid.

It is time for Sweden to step forward and push within the EU for smart sanctions – sanctions that hit regime officials and war criminals but do not prevent hospitals from receiving syringes or children from receiving food.

Here at home, we see how the government is reducing general Swedish aid at a rapid pace. We have also received news from the other side of the Atlantic – from President Trump – that USAID, which has long been a cornerstone regarding Swedish aid to Syria, is also withdrawing large parts of its support.

If the USA leaves this unthinkable vacuum behind, is it then time for Sweden to step back generally from Swedish aid? We Social Democrats have the view that Sweden should take greater responsibility.

The government often speaks of more work in the immediate area. It is an explicit strategy. I mean that in the long run it will become a dangerous retreat, because Syria is not only our moral responsibility. It is also crucial for regional stability and security in the Middle East.

We must speak about Syria's future. Syria must be a country where not only certain groups are given space, because then it will never become a stable Syria. Kurds, Druze, Alawites and Christians – everyone must be given their place in a new, democratic system. Sweden shall be a guarantor among several others for their rights.

Therefore, I would like to follow up on my interpellation and ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs how she views the need for Sweden to take the initiative to reform the sanctions system into a smarter, more effective tool, and how she views the risk that Sweden, in the shadow of diminished US support, also withdraws from its responsibility, especially in a situation where the government often speaks of us working primarily in our immediate vicinity.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Jacob Risberg (MP)

Madam Speaker! Thanks to Member Büser for initiating this debate as well, and thanks to the Minister for Foreign Affairs for being here and answering these questions today!

It was very welcome that the Assad regime fell in the autumn. I believe many breathed a sigh of relief over it. At the same time, one became very worried about what would come next.

There is always a hope when a dictator falls that there will be a rapid democratic development, but that is rarely the case. It requires enormous efforts to achieve true peace and true democracy where all persons have the same rights and the same protection.

It took a very long time for our democracies in the Western world to evolve into what they are today, so we cannot expect it to happen overnight in Syria. One cannot simply learn from each other, because all countries have different circumstances.

Syria is somewhat unique with all these different minorities – Kurds, Yazidis, Syrians, Assyrians, Alawites and others. They should all have the same rights. Then it is about how one should protect this territory, how one should achieve a well-functioning democracy and how one should ensure that everyone is protected.

An important component in all of this is that regardless of which government is in Syria, the country has territorial integrity in the same way as all other countries in the world. We see, after Assad's fall, but it also happened before that, that both Israel and Turkey attack targets inside Syria. Israel has expanded its occupation of certain areas, and Turkey continues to bomb various Kurdish targets.

Here, one would like to hear at least a statement that this is a violation of international law and a violation of the UN Charter. That is obvious, because Syria and Israel and Syria and Turkey are not in a war right now. Countries are not allowed to enter and attack other countries' territory.

It is also worrying that certain attacks are occurring against different minorities from the new Syrian regime – and that there are very many contradictions between the different minorities.

I would like to see the EU design a strategy to help in Syria. I want to see that various democratic institutions are built up and that investment is made in them. I want to see stronger support for civil society, because that will be required. I want to see that people step in and truly protect all minorities and ensure that all minorities have a voice in the Syrian future.

I want to see a bit more action and a bit more support for Syria in this situation, above all support with demands. We cannot continue to pump in money to support in the same way as before if we do not simultaneously set demands that the money ends up in the right place. And when the regime violates what has been agreed upon, one must ensure that it is punished in different ways, perhaps with the help of smart sanctions and so on. I want to see a bit more strategy from Sweden's and the EU's side regarding Syria.

(Applause)

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Utrikesministern Maria Malmer Stenergard (M)

Madam Speaker! It is quite obvious that the new transitional government has major political, economic, societal and security challenges, to say the least, to handle.

The violence and abuses in western Syria constituted a significant setback in the transition process and also highlight the difficulties in building a Syria where all Syrians' rights are respected and where all Syrians can feel safe regardless of religion and ethnicity.

Sweden and the EU have clearly condemned the violence and urged that those responsible be held accountable. We are following that development closely and welcome that the UN has been invited to contribute to mapping the circumstances and contributing to accountability. Transitional justice is and will be one of the areas where the EU is clear in its demands and expectations.

Sweden has a long history of support for the Syrian population both in Syria and in other countries in the region. Since 2011, Sweden has contributed more than 4 billion kronor in humanitarian aid to those affected by the war. Now the government is reviewing how we best adapt our support to the new situation. This naturally includes aid and cooperation in favor of democracy and increased respect for human civil and political rights.

It is clear that it is very concerning how one chooses to act now with USAID. Together with our partners, we are analyzing how we should adapt in relation to that.

The question of sanctions raised here, I personally find genuinely difficult. On one hand, one wants to alleviate the situation for the civilian population and create conditions for economic growth. On the other hand, one wants to be very clear with their demands on the new government to live up to the requirements that we set. Then, one does not want to end up in a situation where we roll back sanctions that we then cannot reintroduce.

This is something that is discussed a lot at the EU level and which will be discussed at the council meeting in Luxembourg. It was also something we discussed in detail in the EU Committee today. I believe that it is exactly what Johan Büser calls smart sanctions that people want to achieve.

Then I just want to reflect a bit on the fact that Jacob Risberg may have chosen the wrong profession. It is very much about pronouncing which crimes have been committed, and it is difficult for us who are not judges or appointed to judge such difficult circumstances in international courts. On the other hand, we as politicians must, of course, demand accountability and support the important courts that have to uphold the international rules-based world order and thereby ensure that they can also prosecute those who have committed serious crimes such as war crimes. But it is, again, not us who are appointed to judge.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Johan Büser (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you to the Minister for Foreign Affairs for the answer!

I think it is welcome that the Minister for Foreign Affairs says that the government will review how to best support democracy development in Syria. I have respect for the fact that the sanctions issue is difficult, just as the Minister for Foreign Affairs says.

The Committee on Foreign Affairs met with the Red Cross here in the Riksdag some time ago. The Red Cross presented precisely the great need to review the sanctions and look at smart sanctions. It would be welcome if Sweden pushed for this. I note that the Minister for Foreign Affairs is open to it, and I think that is positive.

Both the Red Cross, the Red Crescent, and UN agencies say the same thing: The legal exceptions exist, but the banks do not dare or cannot facilitate the funds. The support therefore does not become effective.

So, as to the question of return, which I touched upon earlier. Many Syrian refugees want to return, especially those living in other countries near Syria. But when they do, they notice that it is not possible. The hospitals do not function. There is no waste collection, and sometimes there is also no water.

If we are serious about creating the conditions for these people to return, it is important that we do not only contribute with emergency aid. It requires assistance that strengthens social functions also at the local level, i.e., assistance that goes not only to emergency aid but also to long-term democratic development. This cannot be emphasized enough.

Madam Speaker! I also want to highlight the program that the new Syrian leader al-Sharaa has recently presented. It is a proposal for a transitional government and a possible future plan for a democratic Syria.

There are no easy paths forward, but this initiative has in any case awakened cautious optimism among some of the diaspora here in Sweden. I have met some who belong to it. It could be an attempt to gather oppositional forces to create a platform for dialogue and inclusion – not only between individuals but also between different ethnic and religious groups.

I do not reproach either the part of the diaspora that feels strong doubt regarding this. Just as the Foreign Minister has mentioned, in the recent past we have seen with horror violence and abuses in Syria against both Alawites and other groups.

I wonder how the Foreign Minister assesses the initiative from al-Sharaa and the new transitional government. Does the Foreign Minister see this as a serious step towards a possible transition to a democratic Syria?

I also want to raise the issue of Syria as a country of minorities, Madam Speaker. It is of course important that all minorities are included in the reconstruction. Sweden must support this as an inclusive democratic development where all groups have a place.

With that said, I look forward to the Foreign Minister's answer regarding how she views the transitional government.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Jacob Risberg (MP)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Minister for Foreign Affairs, for the answer! I believe that we are fundamentally quite in agreement on this issue and on what is required to ensure that Syria gets a peaceful and democratic future.

There are, however, always nuances. I intended to answer a couple of the questions raised in the Foreign Minister's response. For the first, I am very satisfied with my profession, but regarding international law, the UN Charter is extremely clear regarding territorial integrity. It is one of the most important principles. It doesn't matter whether one is to await a court or not, because if a country enters and attacks another country, it is a violation of the UN Charter. That's it. No court was needed to speak of that. We know exactly where the borders are between Turkey and Syria, and we know exactly where they are between Israel and Syria.

One cannot always wait for the courts. Several international law experts have said that politicians must dare to speak out about war crimes and crimes against international humanitarian law, for how else can one act in a timely manner?

There is a principle that we agreed upon two decades ago called the responsibility to protect. It will have no validity whatsoever if one cannot say that a war crime was committed in order to protect the civilian population while a war crime was being committed. One cannot wait three or four years. By then, those in the civilian population will probably be dead.

I also want to touch upon smart sanctions. President Roosevelt said – excuse the English here – "speak softly and carry a big stick." Speak softly, but carry a big stick. This is the basis for smart sanctions. People should be given incentives to do the right thing. They should be rewarded and enticed to do the right thing. That is the best way to get people to change their minds. But there must also be sharp and swift punishments when they do wrong.

So there are possibilities to design sanctions in this way. This is even something I studied at one time. I am happy to talk about sanctions at another occasion.

Actually, we are in agreement, and I didn't really have many more questions, but rather more points to accompany.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Utrikesministern Maria Malmer Stenergard (M)

Madam Speaker! It is as has been said, completely clear that the challenges are enormous. It is an economy in collapse in a country that, under the Assad regime, was torn apart by a cruel and calculated sectarianism and brutal violence against its own population. A decade of war has forced millions of people to flee. Many of them live here in Sweden now.

The situation in Syria will continue to be fragile. Sweden, together with the EU, is clear in our expectations for an inclusive transition process where all Syrians' rights are respected.

Regarding Johan Büsers' question on how I view the transitional government, it is, to begin with, welcome that a transitional government is now in place. It enables in-depth conversations about the EU's expectations and support, including in areas such as the rights of minorities and women. It is positive that the interim government seems to want to try to find a way forward that meets the expectations of the diversity that characterizes the Syrian population and also the clear messages that we and other parts of the world send.

I did, however, count quickly to seven Mohammed – I believe that is – and one woman in this transitional government, so there is still quite a lot to be desired when it comes to women's opportunities to influence there. I met this woman, moreover, at the security conference in Munich before she took office. She is, in any case, a very powerful woman, and I believe she can contribute very much in Syria.

This is no simple task, and ultimately it must be up to the Syrian people to decide what is acceptable. At the same time, support from the rest of the world is, of course, still important. It is positive that an agreement has now been reached with the Kurdish autonomy in northeastern Syria to incorporate their institutions into the Syrian state. The implementation of this agreement will be important, and the government is following the developments closely. The hope, of course, is that it will lead to a more peaceful, stable, and united Syria.

I also want to be clear that Sweden and the EU continue to emphasize the importance of respecting Syria's sovereignty and territorial integrity. This also applies in relation to Syria's neighboring countries.

I also agree that we need smart sanctions. From the Swedish side, we have constantly pointed out the importance of setting clear requirements and that the concessions made are also reversible. Then it can have consequences if the requirements are not met.

I look forward very much to discussing sanctions more closely with Jacob Risberg in another context.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Johan Büser (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Minister for Foreign Affairs, for the debate regarding my interpellation!

I think it is positive that the Foreign Minister views it positively to look more closely at smart sanctions. I believe it is incredibly important to design sanctions in such a way, when we see over 7 million people on the brink of starvation. As was said, a month's salary in many cases only covers two kilos of meat.

We need to agree that Syria must not be forgotten, and we must act – politically, economically, and morally. Sweden has been an important voice and a major aid donor for a long time. When aid is decreasing so alarmingly in the world – not least regarding USAID which was mentioned earlier in the debate – it is important that Sweden does not turn away its gaze but is involved and contributes.

We know that it is unlikely that elections will be held in Syria for at least four years. This is something I take seriously and that the Social Democrats consider important. I assume that the Foreign Minister will also convey in his contacts that elections must be held in Syria.

Civil society is an important guarantor moving forward. It needs to be strengthened to increase people's opportunities for organizing in the country. We may need to reflect further on how we best strengthen these actors: the small local organizations, the women's associations, and the youth networks.

I would like to thank you for this debate. I look forward to the Foreign Minister taking the initiative to change the sanctions regime so that the aid requested by the Red Cross and the Red Crescent can get through.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Utrikesministern Maria Malmer Stenergard (M)

Madam Speaker! I believe that I, Johan Büser and Jacob Risberg are in many ways in agreement regarding our stance on Syria. There is an opportunity now that the horrific Assad regime has fallen. It is positive that there is now a transitional government in place, but there are also very many challenges linked to this. It is important that we support in a very active way and are clear about setting demands on the new transitional government. There is a risk of setbacks. I believe we must prepare ourselves for the possibility of more such setbacks and that we will then need to act.

As we have said, we need to continue to be clear in our expectations of the new government and in our support for an orderly, peaceful, and inclusive process where all Syrians' rights are respected. The Brussels Conference in support of the Syrian people and the ongoing transition process, which took place in connection with the FAC in mid-March, underscored how united we also are within the EU and in the international community.

Regarding the election, I believe the plan is that it should be held within five years, if I remember correctly, and it is about time.

Thank you very much for the debate!

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)