Response to interpellations 2024/25:277 and 287 on the lack of institutional places

Justitieministern Gunnar Strömmer (M)

Mr. Speaker! Lars Isacsson has asked me in what way I and the government facilitate the process of creating more prison places in Sweden. Furthermore, Lars Isacsson has asked whether the municipalities that have construction-ready land will receive an offer if a new or expanded prison is established in their municipality.

Pontus Andersson Garpvall has, for his part, asked me how I will act in order to be able to reach the scenario in the Prison and Probation Service's capacity report of 27,000 prison and detention places in 2033.

Let me begin by stating that the strained capacity situation in institutions and prisons is fundamentally due to the fact that the expansion of the Prison and Probation Service began far too late. It is not something the agency can be blamed for, but rather it is due to incorrect prioritizations and missing decisions from previous governments.

At the same time, the realignment of criminal policy that this government is undertaking means that more people will be imprisoned and for longer periods. It is about protecting society from dangerous criminals and about providing clearer redress for crime victims.

Therefore, intensive work is underway to meet the need for places here and now, while at the same time we want to create good conditions for continued expansion in the longer term. The Government is providing very large financial supplements to Kriminalvården to lay the foundation for this. Between the years 2023 and 2027, the appropriation is expected to increase from 14.1 to 26 billion kronor. It is a necessary prerequisite for Kriminalvårdens substantial expansion.

The authority is now expanding existing premises, establishing new facilities, and constructing temporary buildings to increase capacity. In order to use premises more efficiently and meet the demand for more places, Kriminalvården has also established a large number of double-occupancy places. Sharing a cell is now a common occurrence for those sentenced to prison.

It is pleasing that there is commitment across the country's municipalities for this important expansion of the Prison and Probation Service. The agency is responsible for its own local procurement. It is the agency that makes decisions on how and where the operations shall be expanded within the economic frameworks provided by the government. The Prison and Probation Service maintains a continuous dialogue with potential landlords and landowners to be able to determine where establishments are best to be carried out.

The government supports these processes in various ways. One example is the close cooperation between Arbetsförmedlingen and Kriminalvården regarding the supply of skills. Its purpose is that more job seekers should apply for employment with and be employed in Kriminalvården. It is a task that has been supported by the government through a special assignment.

The government has also appointed an inquiry which, in the autumn, submitted proposals for a number of measures that shall contribute to a faster expansion of prisons and detention centers, among other things by simplifying and improving the regulatory frameworks that affect this and by shortening the lead times in the planning and building process. The proposals have been referred, and the government shall return regarding the way forward also in those parts.

When it comes to increasing capacity, there is also a need to investigate new ways. One example of this is that the government has tasked an investigator to investigate the conditions for renting accommodation places abroad. The investigation shall present the results of its work and its proposals at the upcoming turn of the month, January/February.

I would also like to highlight the proposals that the government has received from the parliamentarially appointed Trygghetsberedningen, which, on our assignment, has submitted a number of elaborated proposals with the aim of ensuring that the operations in Kriminalvården maintain high quality in a situation where the agency is growing.

There is no doubt that the Prison and Probation Service faces great challenges, but it also has very great opportunities. The Government will continue the work of providing the agency with good conditions to carry out its mandate and to grow without, for that reason, compromising on security or the content of the operations.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Lars Isacsson (S)

Mr. Speaker! Thank you, Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer, for the answer!

I will begin by commenting on the Minister for Justice's response and this matter regarding the responsibility that lies with the previous Social Democratic governments. There were some comments about the sentencing increases that were made during those eight years. What they would lead to is no news for the government.

Now it is being expanded. I know that the Minister for Justice is aware that it involves a long process to produce detailed plans, Mr. Speaker. That work did not, therefore, start just recently, but it has been ongoing.

We are now also in the third year of the parliamentary term. During a parliamentary term, one reaches a point where it is not only the fault of the previous governments but where it also depends on one's own policy.

We are facing a very strained situation in Sweden's correctional services - I am fully aware of this - with overcrowding in our institutions and detention centers. This is a growing problem that requires immediate solutions. But the government's proposal to rent prison places abroad feels both expensive, inefficient, and unrealistic.

Why should Sweden rent capacity in other countries when we have the opportunity to expand here at home? Aside from issues concerning security, processing of personal data, transport, healthcare, and costs, this is, in my opinion, particularly noteworthy given the situation we have in Sweden today. We have record-high unemployment and a construction sector in deep crisis. To choose, in this situation, to place Swedish investments and jobs abroad is not only bad correctional policy but also bad job policy and regional policy.

In Kalmar, for example, there is ready-to-build land and a completed detailed development plan for a significantly larger expansion than what has been decided so far. There are similar opportunities in other municipalities such as Munkfors and Hagfors, which also have ready-to-build land and an interest in participating in this important expansion.

The government emphasizes that it is the Prison and Probation Service that is responsible for its premises, but here is an opportunity to take political responsibility and steer the agency to ensure a faster and more efficient expansion. At the same time, we can create jobs in Sweden and contribute to local growth.

So, Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is: Why is the government considering investing in foreign solutions when we can expand here at home, create jobs, and at the same time solve the skills shortage with regional educational initiatives?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Pontus Andersson Garpvall (SD)

Mr. Speaker! Solving the issue of the shortage of prison places is an important part of the work within the framework of the Tidö Agreement to create a safer Sweden. Four new prisons are underway, bunk beds are being installed in cells, and modular prisons are being built on prison grounds. That more people shall serve their prison sentences in their home countries, that we shall rent prison places abroad, and not least that more people shall be deported after serving their sentence and that we shall be able to revoke citizenship from serious criminals are also issues within the Tidö Agreement that will reduce the pressure on Swedish criminal justice.

The problem with the lack of prison places has been known for a long time. In June 2022, during the Socialdemokraternas government's tenure, 2,600 people were released awaiting a prison place. The situation already looked alarming then.

After the Sweden Democrats and the government parties won a majority of the votes in the parliamentary election this autumn, the Prison and Probation Service presented a scenario for how many prison places will be needed in the future. They argue that the increased penalties and the reorganization of criminal policy that is now being carried out under the Tidö Agreement will lead to Sweden needing 27,000 prison and detention places in 2033 - a fairly large increase from today's approximately 10,000.

At the same time, the Prison and Probation Service and the government argue that it takes approximately seven to eight years to complete a new facility. If the Prison and Probation Service is correct in its forecast, that approximately 17,000 new places are needed in eight to nine years, today's expansion rate will not be sufficient if it takes that much time to complete a facility. I and the Sweden Democrats argue that it would be reasonable if the shovel were in the ground in significantly more places than now or if there were other plans for how the shortage of prison places can be addressed in both the short and long term.

In light of this, I pose the following question to the Minister for Justice: In what additional ways, in addition to what is already being done, will the government act to be able to handle the scenario in the Swedish Prison and Probation Service's capacity report, which shows that 27,000 prison and detention places will be needed in 2033?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Justitieministern Gunnar Strömmer (M)

Mr. Speaker! Thank you, Lars Isacsson, for the opportunity to discuss this question as well this morning, and thank you also for Pontus Andersson Garpvall's contribution to this important debate.

Let me begin by saying that it is several different things that drive the need to expand the criminal justice system. It is, of course, about pressing reforms of criminal law. Longer sentences and not least more intrusive penalties for serious crime will mean that more people will be in prison for longer periods. Social development drives this.

To this is added the very positive news that the crime clearance rate has gone up, from 15, 16, 17 or 18 percent backwards in time when it comes to the most serious firearm-related crime to over 70 percent - naturally a fantastic success. This will also increase the pressure on the correctional services. If we also succeed in making a corresponding journey when it comes to all other crime affecting the citizens, the pressure on the correctional services will continue to increase.

All this combined makes it incredibly important for us to work long-term with this.

It is clear that the main part of the growth will need to take place here at home. I have no other opinion whatsoever than Lars Isacsson when it comes to this. Used correctly, it also means a great opportunity. It is clear that we shall build this with a strong local and regional anchoring. All the parts that are raised – to take advantage of the ready-to-build land that exists in close interaction with the municipalities, to work in the whole society on how we can contribute with skills supply and how educational efforts can be made in different ways locally and regionally to achieve this – constitute, so to speak, the main track for the growth we see ahead of us.

Lars Isacsson mentioned a number of municipalities. I am considering whether the government can contribute in any additional way to possibly increase the pressure in these processes moving forward. Of course, a local commitment that is also backed up by credible planning should be taken into account in the best way possible.

The intensification of the correctional services that is now occurring is both necessary and full of new opportunities. This intensification is undoubtedly partly due to necessity, but it is also part of a development work within the Correctional Services that is very positive.

I want to point out something that is close to this, namely the possibilities of digitalization when it comes to streamlining operations. It is important, not least for being able to handle the skills supply challenge in a good way from that angle as well.

When it comes to this matter of renting detention places abroad, I would like to submit the following. No, it should not be done if it is expensive, bad, and dangerous. But I want to urge a bit of waiting with that assessment until there is, at most potentially, a concrete basis to take a position on. I want to emphasize that the lion's share of the expansion of Swedish criminal justice will need to take place here at home. But I do not think we are in a position where, without having proper data, we can afford the luxury of dismissing in advance something that might possibly play an important complementary role in the total expansion that we see ahead of us.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Lars Isacsson (S)

Mr. Speaker! Thanks to the Minister for Justice for the answer! I share the view that it is a matter of important social development when it comes to crime solving and the importance of harsher sentences, but it is also clearly quite depressing that more people are being deprived of their liberty.

I have more of a regional political focus in this debate. This provides an opportunity for very good jobs all over the country at an agency that has a high reputation and which for a long time has worked very well with Swedish correctional services - the recidivism rate is low thanks to Bättre ut, which they have worked with.

Mr. Speaker! The Minister for Justice urges to wait for the investigation and see what it concludes. I do not know what is true, but I have media reports that the Minister for Justice was in the Baltics. There were headlines about him negotiating for prison places abroad – this was well before Christmas.

The Minister of Justice also refers to intensive work to increase the capacity of the prison and probation service and to large financial injections. This is, of course, positive. But the problem remains: The Government, or if it is the Prison and Probation Service, does not seem to take advantage of the opportunities that already exist.

I believe it is as with nuclear power. If we are to expand nuclear power in Sweden, we should start where there is already nuclear power and a popular acceptance. If it is difficult to get a popular opinion to build wind power in a municipality, I do not think it will be easier to build nuclear power. One should build where it already exists. I believe it is the same with prison places.

The Minister considered also what the government can do more. I believe that Kalmar is a shining example. There is a completed detailed development plan there. There is an ongoing expansion that will provide more places. One could easily expand it from 430 places to 660, which the detailed development plan allows, without needing to change the detailed development plan. The municipality is ready, and it is also said from the municipality that labor is available.

Other municipalities also testify to such. There is already today the possibility to expand where facilities already exist.

I will return to this that the government chooses to investigate the possibility of renting places abroad. It is difficult to understand this in a situation where we have record-high unemployment and a construction sector that is screaming for projects.

Furthermore, the Prison and Probation Service highlights competence supply as a challenge, especially outside the metropolitan areas. We had the Prison and Probation Service visiting the Committee on Justice. On questions about why the expansion is proceeding so slowly, it was stated that it often concerns municipal councilors overestimating the local labor market.

Mr. Speaker! I want to ask a direct question to the Minister for Justice: Does the Minister for Justice share the view that it is difficult to recruit to the correctional services outside the major cities? And if so, what concrete measures does the government plan to take to solve this?

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Pontus Andersson Garpvall (SD)

Mr. Speaker! In 2015, the violence in El Salvador reached its peak with 6,656 murders. The figure represents approximately 103 murders per 100,000 inhabitants - roughly as if there would have been over 10,000 murders per year in Sweden, over 1,000 in Stockholm or over 150 in Helsingborg. Fortunately, we have never been anywhere near these figures in Sweden.

The reason I am bringing up El Salvador specifically in this debate is that there, during the last year, just six years after Nayib Bukele won the election in the country, they have gone from having the most murders in the world to being at approximately the same levels as Sweden. How has El Salvador then managed to address that problem? Well, since the takeover, over 80,000 people have been imprisoned, all with some form of connection to gang crime.

This actually shows two things. The first is that El Salvador differs quite a bit from Sweden when it comes to legal certainty. Many of those incapacitated have not yet had their cases heard in court. The second is that incarceration works. If we lock up dangerous people, we will also create a safer society for the great mass.

El Salvador and Nayib Bukele have been criticized, among others by Amnesty, who believe that the country violates the human rights of those detained. But the funny thing is that those who are now criticizing El Salvador said nothing when the country's law-abiding citizens were murdered, robbed, or otherwise affected by the gang criminals. Where were the human rights for the law-abiding citizens in El Salvador then? Where was the criticism that no one did anything about the problem?

In Sweden, we are now building modular prisons on prison grounds, which affects the inmates' outdoor activities. We are installing bunk beds in cells, which affects the inmates' personal space. The Prison and Probation Service argues that it is not possible to double-place in smaller areas than what is currently done because it could violate the inmates' human rights.

But somewhere we need to increase the pace and do what is required, partly so that those who go free while awaiting punishment can be locked up, and partly so that we can continue the tightening of penalties at a high pace for the sake of the law-abiding citizens' rights.

The Social Democrats' term in government took us into a criminal policy state of emergency that we need to solve with the means required. In that case, it does not sound reasonable to me that it should take as long to complete, for example, the Öresund Bridge as it does to complete a prison. My priority will always be the country's law-abiding citizens, and I believe that the Minister of Justice has the same priority. But in that case, we likely need extraordinary measures to obtain more prison places.

For some time, we have been working with double placement in cells for prison inmates, which contributes to more places. The Sweden Democrats are prepared to do exactly what is required to get more prisons and prison places. Our priority is not primarily the well-being of the inmates, but the country's law-abiding citizens' right to live in a safe Sweden, where the toughening of sentences can continue at a high pace and where criminals do not go free while waiting for a prison place.

Does the Minister see the possibility of working with double placement in smaller areas than what is used today, or even working with triple placement in larger cells to solve the prison shortage?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Justitieministern Gunnar Strömmer (M)

Mr. Speaker! Let me begin with the question of human rights. There is no doubt that the state of Sweden has an obligation to protect its citizens against serious crime. Even the European Court of Human Rights has established this in several judgments that have also concerned Sweden.

It is, of course, about protecting citizens' lives, privacy, property, and whatever it may be. It is an incredibly important starting point. It also provides a deeper moral resonance to the realignment that is now being made when we focus on both the redress of crime victims and on societal protection. They are connected, and ultimately, it is about defending our free and open society.

I also sign on to the fact that incarceration is significant. There is no doubt that we must work on crime prevention in a long line of other ways, not least with social prevention and other things, but it is clear that if one locks up dangerous persons, it will also have significance for the citizens' safety.

When the police now analyze the background of why the fatal shootings are decreasing, they highlight several different things. They naturally highlight new resources and new tools such as preventive coercive measures and the police's own methods of work, where there has been a very long journey. But they also highlight the doubling of the minimum sentences when it concerns the serious weapons crimes. If one locks up dangerous persons for twice as long, they cannot commit new crimes and cannot recruit new children and young people. It also has very great significance from a crime-preventive and safety-creating perspective that we tighten sentences, lock up dangerous persons longer, and also create the conditions for the Prison and Probation Service to handle this.

When it comes to the expansion and the question of areas and square meters in the Prison and Probation Service's work, I would say that the authority has made a fairly large shift recently. The double-layering itself already implies a fairly large change regarding the view on how one disposes of space. It is also being done in increasingly smaller spaces.

The person who visits the Prison and Rehabilitation Service and enters cells where there is double occupancy, I hardly think will be struck by the fact that there is particularly much space to move around in, but rather that it is quite tight. I have no principled objections to thinking in other ways and that there may be even more in the cell, but then one probably also has to add a few square meters and so on. I know that the Prison and Rehabilitation Service has an open mind when it comes to this, especially now that they are building new and have other opportunities to create flexibility in new premises.

Let me move on to the question of whether one should listen to the municipal councilors' forecasts regarding competence supply in the municipality. My simple experience is that, as a rule, one should listen very carefully to what municipal councilors have to say. I do not rule out that at one point or another there may be an optimistic forecast intended to secure investments. But with that said, I still believe it is a good starting point to stay close to the municipal councilors with serious planning and serious underlying data for the conditions for growth.

In the event that there is a need to allocate resources to, for example, equip more people through education to make themselves available for work in the criminal justice system, we will, of course, review those possibilities carefully.

Let me also say that regarding the local examples that Lars Isacsson raises, I am considering in what way the government can contribute to ensure that we truly maximize the expansion, not least in places where an expansion is already taking place and where it is said there is room to do more.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Lars Isacsson (S)

Mr. Speaker! Thank you to the Minister for Justice for the answer! I especially thank the Minister for Justice for the last point raised, which concerned ensuring that one maximizes where expansion is already occurring. That is somewhat my thesis regarding this interpellation.

I believe that renting prison places abroad risks becoming an expensive and inefficient solution, where we do not make use of the resources we have here at home. With record-high unemployment and a construction sector in crisis, it is bad policy to let investments and jobs end up abroad when we can use the resources to build up our own society.

It is good that the Minister for Justice listens to the municipal councilors. I believe that the state must acquire better self-confidence as an employer. It cannot be reasonable that the Prison and Probation Service thinks that a municipality of Kalmar's size, with 70,000 inhabitants, is too small a labor market to establish itself in. I believe that the state must learn from the business sector. In Dalarna, for example, we have Ludvika and Smedjebacken. Ludvika has 26,000 inhabitants. Smedjebacken has 10,000 inhabitants. There, Hitachi is building new factories. For a period of two years – and they will continue for a period of three years – they have hired three people a day. But if one wants to have a police officer in Smedjebacken, it is said that no one wants to work there. And if one wants someone for the tax office in Ludvika, it is said: No, it is not possible to recruit here.

It is very depressing for municipal politicians all over Sweden - where the median municipality has 16,000 inhabitants - that the state cannot establish itself.

To SD's member Pontus Andersson Garpvall, I want to say that as a municipal politician in a mill town, I have fought against the outsourcing of Swedish industrial jobs to low-wage countries. Here, one must continue that fight against SD, who want to outsource state jobs abroad. I think it is a proof that they are really bad nationalists, with El Salvador as an example.

But the message to the Minister for Justice is: Do not leave the responsibility solely to the Prison and Probation Service!

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Pontus Andersson Garpvall (SD)

Mr. Speaker! It is almost spring, but for that we do not have to release the prisoners, which was the result of the legacy we received from the Social Democrats' time in government.

Regarding the question of outsourcing prison operations, it is some kind of emergency solution. It is not a situation we want, but it can be a solution if we need to get prison places in place as quickly as possible. This goes significantly faster than building a completely new prison in Sweden, which can take seven to eight years. The day we have space for all prisoners in Sweden, they should naturally be held in prisons in Sweden.

Regarding the shortage of space that we have, the Prison and Probation Service states that we need 17,000 prison places by 2033. I have a bit of difficulty making the mathematics work for that to function. If we are talking about very large prisons, with 1,000 places per prison, we therefore need 17 prisons. Currently, 4 are being built. If we are talking about normal-sized prisons with perhaps 500 places, which is still quite large, we are talking about 34 new prisons. This is in addition to ensuring double-placement and doing everything from the Prison and Probation Service's side to create more places at the prisons we already have.

I have a point of order. I truly believe that we need to get started very quickly with new facilities in order to be able to incapacitate the people who will be sentenced as a result of the Sverigedemokraternas and the government parties' restructuring of the crime policy.

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Justitieministern Gunnar Strömmer (M)

Mr. Speaker! Thanks to the interpellants, both Lars Isacsson and Pontus Andersson Garpvall, for the opportunity to discuss these important issues here today!

Let me return to the fundamentals. The fact that we are now making record-breaking investments in the criminal justice system can, of course, be said to be depressing in the sense that it reflects a societal development that no one can be satisfied with - the violence, the criminal economy, and the recruitment of children. But it is also about societal development broader than just, so to speak, gang crime. It is a crime that affects citizens in their everyday lives and so on.

But this is also driven by a determination: We cannot have it this way. It is a determination that is about us having to better protect our society against serious crime. We must, to a greater extent than we have done until now, provide redress for crime victims. In that sense, this growth is also an expression of a society that has decided to restore safety and freedom for the citizens. That spirit characterizes to a very high degree the work of the correctional services and the employees in the correctional services, in the journey they are on.

I can take note of a few things and possibly also make a counter-submission. I then acknowledge Pontus Andersson Garpvall's submission. Yes, this must be stepped up if we are to have a chance to meet the needs that will exist in the future. Yes, I believe there is more to be done, not least if one thinks that this is being built from the bottom up. It is about the local and regional power. There are great opportunities in this, also seen from a local and regional perspective and from the perspective of the correctional services.

The last thing I would possibly want to send is that one should not pit good ideas against each other. Let us see what innovative processes can yield and then evaluate it based on what emerges. Let us also return to the question of to what extent an engagement abroad can contribute to a whole, which of course will primarily be built on the fact that we grow here at home.

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

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