Digitalization and postal issues

Maria Stockhaus (M)

Madam Speaker! We find ourselves in a time of transition. ChatGPT took large parts of the world by surprise. Something many perceived as science fiction suddenly became very concrete, even though we in many contexts have used AI solutions without being aware of it. Digitalization affects all parts of our society, and AI has the potential to revolutionize many areas. Just as with all new technology, both digital tools and AI can be used for things that are good and, in the wrong hands, for things that affect our society negatively.

Madam Speaker! We in Sweden need to create and intensify cooperation through a national mobilization around digitalization and AI, not least in order to be able to maintain our common welfare and also to find solutions to climate challenges and other major challenges the world faces. At the same time, we shall, both within the framework of the EU and our own national authority structure, ensure that we obtain a framework that manages the risks without hindering the development of digital tools and AI.

Today, the European Parliament is voting on rules for AI, and in the debate, the tension is clearly noticeable between those who want to focus on regulating and preventing and those who want to promote development. Leading researchers have drawn parallels between pharmaceuticals and AI, that is to say that there is a universal human interest in controlling both. It is important that we produce new pharmaceuticals, just as it is important that we produce new AI solutions. And it is important to ensure that they do not lead to harmful effects for people, whether it is medical effects or something else. A similar regulatory framework to the one we already have for medical development could be the way forward to create transparency and manage the risks when it comes to AI.

Madam Speaker! Sweden needs a political leadership that embraces the opportunities of digitalization and AI and clearly defines its own political responsibility. A majority of studies, reports, and experts have stated that after eight years of Social Democratic rule, Sweden as an IT country has lost competitiveness and digital leadership. The OECD confirms this picture and ranks the Swedish digitalization of the public sector at the bottom among industrialized countries. When it came to the question of digitalization, our government truly did not come to a set table. Fortunately, this government has a completely different focus, and during the short time the government has been in power, it has, among other things, increased the funds for the Advanced Digitalization program. It began in 2021. Vinnova and Teknikföretagen are involved. The program is based on a public partnership model where various development projects are funded, primarily within digitalization and AI. State interventions are then matched crown for crown by the business sector.

Earlier this year, the government increased the funding for the program for advanced digitalization to 500 million per year until 2027.

The Government has also restarted the Digitalization Council. It shall continue its work in promoting the implementation of the general digitalization policy and the digitalization of public administration. The Council's work has been extended until December 31, 2026. The Council has received a somewhat different composition in order to create better dynamics within the Council. The digital development in society is moving fast, and the Digitalization Council constitutes an important function to be able to gather and disseminate knowledge about current changes and needs within the area.

In addition to this, the government during the EU Presidency has, among other things, held an AI conference in Gothenburg, and on Thursday and Friday this week, the Digital Assembly is taking place here in Stockholm. This is just the beginning.

Madam Speaker! Society as a whole - private, non-profit and public - is affected by digitalization and AI. The strategic issues need to be able to be handled by management groups and by us decision-makers.

In 2018, the Expert Group for Digital Investments presented its report. The group's mandate was to provide advice and support to 20 agencies regarding digital investments. The purpose was for government agencies to become better at implementing business development and more quickly achieve desired results from political reforms or changed tasks.

Five years later, we can state that some improvement has occurred among Swedish authorities, but the overall picture clearly indicates that public administration is not developing at all at the pace that Sweden as a nation needs.

Madam Speaker! The report we are debating today also concerns the mail. It is not only about digitalization issues.

The mail is undergoing a fundamental change. We send emails and SMS and post on social media rather than sending letters and postcards. This shows that we should have come even further with the digitalization of agency mail.

There is fundamentally no reasonable reason why, in the year 2023, we send physical letters when digital mailboxes are safer, more practical and cheaper. At the same time, we live in an era where the previously limited postal market is now about to become the norm. We must prepare Swedish mail for this by protecting the entire country and ensuring functional competition.

We should consider how we can strengthen competition, not reduce it. Neither the market nor digitalization is a threat to a functioning postal market after 2025. They are two great opportunities that, if managed correctly, can modernize Swedish postal operations and make them more sustainable, cost-effective, and digital.

It is very difficult to understand that in a country with a population where most are used to digital tools, not least after the pandemic, there are government agencies and companies that continue to send, for example, bills in window envelopes when a digital solution makes the handling of both distribution and payment so incredibly much simpler.

I am pleased that the government is now investigating the possibility of increasing the use of digital mailboxes. In addition to simplifying the handling, it is significantly more environmentally friendly and saves both paper and forest.

With that, Madam Speaker, I move for the proposal in the report to be approved.

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Daniel Helldén (MP)

Madam Speaker! Member of Parliament Stockhaus is speaking about digitalization, above all AI, and the new challenges and opportunities that we see ahead of us. It is a fantastic development that is taking place. We don't really know where the AI technology and these different models will lead us, but an incredible amount is happening.

Just as the member says, Sweden is not directly at the forefront in this area. Much needs to be done. Not least, from a state level, it will likely be necessary to centralize part of the work because so many resources are required to manage this.

Today we have a couple of authorities that work on this together, but it is always difficult to work with authorities that do not quite have such a mandate that they can cross boundaries. The Swedish Agency for Digital Government is seen as the main authority in this area. An incredible amount of development work is taking place in Linköping.

But every time we in the Committee on Transport are at conferences and so on and meet those who work with this, they say that there must be a clearer national strategy and a national effort in the area. Then they point to the Government Offices. Member Stockhaus is, of course, Moderate and has the Prime Minister as a close confidant.

What they say in these contexts is that one should centralize AI issues in the Government Offices or place them under the Prime Minister because this is so revolutionary for all our activities.

Today, this lies, probably by tradition, with another minister, Mr. Slottner. I would then like to ask if it is the case that the government is working on this and if the majority parties are looking at centralizing it to the Prime Minister, because this will turn upside down most of what we see today.

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Maria Stockhaus (M)

Madam Speaker! Thank you very much for the question, Daniel Helldén! I have also heard it. It has been raised on several occasions.

I believe that much of the discussion also concerns the fact that there is a frustration over the lack of political leadership, historically speaking, at the EU level but also in Sweden. The previous government did not have this issue high up on its agenda, which this government does.

If this is organized directly under the Prime Minister, which I can absolutely see there are benefits with, or if it lies somewhere else, it may be important on paper. But the question is whether the most important thing is not that we get a national AI strategy, which is in progress, that it is updated and that there are good competencies that the Government Offices secure, which is done, among other things, through the Digitalization Council. The important thing is that it becomes a workshop and that the politics steps out into the arena, which the previous government did not do.

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Daniel Helldén (MP)

Madam Speaker! One can talk about different governments.

The work that is being carried out today at the national level was initiated during the previous government. The organization called AI Sweden – I do not know exactly the form of this or what one should call it – was initiated by Peter Eriksson when he was Minister for Digitalization. He launched that development, and it is a central part of the Swedish national work that handles these issues.

I would therefore say that much was done by the previous governments. However, we see both internationally and nationally that at the national level, one does not quite manage to keep up with this development.

I am not getting a clear answer from Maria Stockhaus on whether the government intends to centralize this around the Prime Minister because it is so incredibly far-reaching. It is not just a side department's responsibility, but it must be something that is handled under the Government Offices.

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Maria Stockhaus (M)

Madam Speaker! I believe that Daniel Helldén and I agree on how important this issue is for Sweden's future.

It concerns many different challenges that we have that we see to ensuring we get up to speed on, because we have not been there. AI Sweden is an extraordinary example of something that was done by the previous government. But it is very clear that what is being requested in the industry and by leading companies in the field is clear political leadership, which they perceive was lacking under the previous government. They expect more from this government, and what I see in the discussions we have with the department is that one is willing to take this leadership.

I think the question is where this competence lies. It is important that we have a government committee and a Prime Minister who are engaged in the issues, which we have. But the question is whether the organizational affiliation is what is important or if the most important thing is that we actually achieve something. I believe the latter is more important.

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Gunilla Svantorp (S)

Madam Speaker! Yes, we are debating digitalization and postal issues here today.

We have an authority, the Agency for Digital Government, which for the third time has conducted a comprehensive analysis of the digitalization of Swedish society. They have looked at the population's digital competence. They have looked at the country's broadband infrastructure. They have looked at the digital transformation of companies and public administration. And they provide a comprehensive picture of the transformation of the digital structure in society.

It is an important investigation because it provides a picture that may look a bit different than the one we have just heard about. The results show that Sweden is far ahead when it comes to digitalization, but that we are rarely first. Other countries are catching up and overtaking.

The survey shows that the business sector's digital transition is going well, but it also shows that when it comes to core technologies, it is worse. It shows that Sweden lags behind other countries in 5G coverage, but it is believed that we will soon catch up. It also shows that the fixed network is well-developed, but in certain parts of the country - which we who live in the countryside know very well - it looks significantly worse. The survey also shows that Sweden stands well when it comes to the digital competence of the population, but that an all too large proportion still lacks basic competence. The conclusion is that we have done - and are doing - much that is good, but that we must do significantly more.

I think, above all, it is about two things that we must sharpen up regarding. One concerns which goals we have. It is a good goal that we should be the best at utilizing the possibilities of digitalization, but the other thing is that we also must have goals that say we should be the best at developing. We are not against Sweden, which has as many innovations as it can fall back on! Within the digital world, we have Skype, Spotify, and Klarna, and there are surely many more examples that I could list that people have actually developed in Sweden. Therefore, we need a sharper goal, and we need to discuss that.

I would wish that we could discuss in a good tone and say that everyone is needed. It is not about what one government or the other did, but about us moving forward together. I believe that it would be very important. Then there is other things we need to do based on the three analyses that have been made. It is primarily about the public digitalization, where we can become much better if we set sharp goals and point with the whole hand - "this is where we want to go" - and make agreements, especially with SKR, which does gather municipalities and regions.

In the Transport Committee, we are responsible for the digital infrastructure. It is a very interesting area, because it is all the time about technological development, research, green transition, and everything that is very topical right now. I can take the car as an example. For a while, it was a physical thing, but today it is very digital. Thanks to research, there are electrified cars today, and then it is clear that something is happening with the cars. They can communicate with other cars and other devices. They can receive information and provide information. For the automotive industry as a whole, it is also about integrating products in their vehicles that are to talk with other products. Digitalization is important in an enormous number of different ways.

Then we have the entire issue of AI, which the previous speaker touched upon. It is important that we see the fantastic opportunities that exist, not least within the healthcare sector, which is crucial for many of us, but also within almost all sectors that exist. It is also important to have a structure for open data, that we use the data that exists and that more people get access to it. At the same time, we must keep track of privacy-sensitive information and so on. But many different sectors require that data be shared today.

There are many different issues where AI will become important in the future. This is not least about cybersecurity and what is happening around us. We really need to be on top of those issues. Digitalization is today a prerequisite for the climate transition, and we need to link the different things together.

Society's basic digital infrastructure shall originate from the state, and the information and data shall not lie on a market. It is an important fundamental principle that we must hold fast to, I think.

We will also talk a little bit about the mail, because the report also concerns the mail. Just as previous speakers have said, the mail has changed completely. We can look in our own mailboxes and see how rarely we who have joined the digital mailboxes today receive physical letters. At the same time, there must still be an infrastructure so that we throughout our country can receive both letters and parcels. It is therefore important.

There are a number of investigations. We will have to see what they land on eventually and if they come up with any proposals, but I still want to point out that for the Social Democrats and me, it is very important to have a well-functioning mail service throughout the country. This must be the starting point in the proposals that are submitted. They cannot just be on market terms. This must also be included in the basic infrastructure.

Finally, Madam Speaker, I want to say that I naturally stand behind all our reservations, but for the sake of time, I move for approval only of reservation number 4.

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Maria Stockhaus (M)

Madam Speaker! I intended to touch upon something called the localization principle. It may not sound particularly exciting, but it is an issue that has been raised for many years by the industry, the municipalities, and people in rural areas regarding the possibility of gaining access to broadband. Connectivity is fundamental, because if one does not have it, one cannot be part of the digital society. Now there is technology that enables connectivity in new ways, but fundamentally, a good broadband network is still immensely important to ensure people's access to all the possibilities of digitalization.

There is a problem with the fact that city networks are not allowed to be expanded across a municipal border, even though it would have been the most rational way to solve access to broadband in many parts of the country. This has been pointed out for many years, and it would actually not cost the state anything to change the localization principle and make it possible to dig across a municipal border, but it is only now – since March 1st this year – that it is possible and permitted. It was changed on the previous government's initiative, absolutely, but my question to Gunilla Svantorp is why this, which is so incredibly important for many out in the country, was not done earlier.

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Gunilla Svantorp (S)

Madam Speaker! I can also think that it has taken a long time, but it was still the S-government that commissioned the investigation. If I have understood it all correctly, it was then complications in the investigation that made it necessary to commission an additional investigation, which made it take time. I believe that Maria Stockhaus knows that, given that she has sat on the transport committee longer than I have.

I believe it is very important to ensure that we try to remove all the obstacles that prevent broadband from being built out sufficiently. In their respective areas, it has been built out very well – one can certainly see that where I live, in the municipality that was actually first in Sweden with a 24-hour Ica store where you log in with BankID. It is thanks to the fact that the digital infrastructure has been built out that this is possible. So, the S-government was not completely useless during its years. They prioritized ensuring that there is a digital infrastructure. But of course, one can always become much better.

I would like to ask a question to Maria Stockhaus regarding state electronic identification. Sweden is one of the few EU countries - perhaps even the only one - that does not have a state e-identification. We have other such identifications, but none that are state-issued. The new EU regulation called eIDAS implies that we in all countries must have a digital wallet. I would like to know how Maria Stockhaus and the government view this issue. Will we be positive towards the development of a state electronic identification?

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Maria Stockhaus (M)

Madam Speaker! The important thing is that, at the current stage, there is an opportunity to authenticate oneself digitally. We will have to see what the EU regulation means in practice for Sweden and what we need to do to fulfill it.

I would like to return to this regarding the level of ambition when it comes to digitalization. Previously, when we had a different government, I often stood up and said that the level of ambition that the government at that time had, to be the best at utilizing the possibilities of digitalization, is a passive and rather low-set goal for a country like Sweden. Now, Gunilla Svantorp gives the impression that she agrees that we should be involved and ensure that we are the best in the world at developing new digital applications.

My question is: Why has it not been a goal for the previous government? The political leadership when it comes to digitalization and having high-reaching goals for where Sweden should be on the international map is clearly linked to the goals set by the government. Here is the general opinion, my opinion, and demonstrably also Gunilla Svantorp's opinion that the goals were set too low. Why did one have such low objectives under the previous government?

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Gunilla Svantorp (S)

Madam Speaker! It may be time to remind Maria Stockhaus of what happened during the previous parliamentary term. A couple of years of the previous term disappeared in a pandemic. At least in the committee I sat in at the time, the Education Committee, one had to put everything else aside and work exclusively with matters concerning the pandemic. It is possible that it was also so in the Transport Committee – I do not know, as I did not sit in that committee then.

Maria Stockhaus says that we need a sharper political leadership in these issues. In response to my question, she says: We have to see what we need to do to fulfill the regulation. That is not taking the lead, is it? Setting the agenda is not done by seeing what you need to do to fulfill the regulation, but it is done by talking about what you want to do.

One thing is said in the speaker's chair, but then it is something completely different that is presented. I expect significantly more than just that type of answer going forward.

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Kjell-Arne Ottosson (KD)

Madam Speaker! As my final debate during this parliamentary year, I have been tossed into a Committee on Transport debate regarding digitalization and postal issues. Since I am not a regular member of the committee, I have not been involved in the preparation of these issues, so I can perhaps partly blame my lack of knowledge in the area on that. But it is not without one sometimes feeling like an uncle, 85, when certain digitalization issues arise. Even though one has not passed 50 yet, one feels significantly older in certain situations, and that certainly applies when the theme is digitalization.

According to the report Swedes and the Internet 2022, published by the Internet Foundation, 94 percent of the population use the internet, and almost all do so daily. The 6 percent who do not use the internet at all belong almost exclusively to the oldest in our population. Every fifth retiree does not use the internet. According to the report, the elderly are limited, among other things, by high costs, complicated technology, and a fear of being cheated.

At the same time, one sees how this leads to exclusion in many ways. Many expect that everyone has access to an email address or a BankID today, which is not the case. Especially many elderly people do not have it. Unfortunately, these end up in a B-team, as the analog possibilities for contact with healthcare, authorities, applications for home care and so on do not have the same service level, telephone hours etcetera as before.

It is fully understandable and completely correct that digitalization is moving forward, but we must not forget my nearly 80-year-old mother or others who do not have the digital skills or opportunities. PTS's annual report for 2022 shows how the authority is still working towards reduced digital exclusion and an easier everyday life for the elderly who have involuntarily ended up in both physical and social isolation, which is indeed welcome. But it will not be enough. Therefore, the analog services must still remain available to a reasonable extent.

Madam Speaker! The old copper network has been dismantled in many places, and the dismantling continues constantly. The fact that the network has been dismantled has simultaneously led to a good expansion of fiber in large parts of the Swedish countryside, but not everywhere. A challenge that this has however brought with it is that those who no longer have a landline via copper network or fiber are referred to the mobile network. From my own and my neighbors' most limited empirical studies, we can state that the reception in at least my and Gunilla Svantorp's part of Värmland has become significantly worse. Perhaps it is because more and more people are using wireless data traffic? I do not know, but this is our own home-made theory.

In any case, poor reception leads to challenges. At the same time, we must secure the mobile masts that actually become our lifelines, so that they function even during power outages. Many masts today have very limited capacity, and even during a shorter power outage, no functionality remains once the emergency power is exhausted. Consequently, one cannot reach 112 either if one is in need of it. We see the fantastic possibilities of digitalization, but we must simultaneously keep its weaknesses in mind during development and expansion.

Madam Speaker! In the Christian Democrats' rural policy program, it is clearly pointed out that broadband is in practice necessary for a modern residence or business. Still, there are many who lack the opportunities that a stable and fast internet connection entails. In rural areas, the conditions for market-driven expansion are often lacking. There, different forms of support are needed. In an evaluation of the rural and regional fund programs, commissioned by Tillväxtverket and Jordbruksverket, fiber connection is described as being just as important as roads and electricity.

In telephone surveys, 62 percent of the entrepreneurs who have been given access to a fiber connection stated that it is of great or very great importance for the company. During the pandemic, many moved their workplace to their home and sometimes even to vacation homes and summer places in the countryside. For those who, during a limited period for reasons related to pandemic restrictions, have more or less been forced to move their workplace, it may have worked to get by with a shaky mobile connection. But what we see ahead of us now is that many will want to continue working parts of their working time from a location other than the office. This will further increase the demands for an expanded fiber network.

There are examples from the countryside where companies or residences that are far from a fiber network in their own municipality but are close to a fiber network in another municipality are not allowed to connect to the existing network in the neighboring municipality. We want to find solutions to these effects in order to avoid them - not only to speed up the possibility for more to be able to connect their property to the fiber network but also because it would save money and resources.

Madam Speaker! Sweden is a large country, and it is probably not economically justifiable to invest in fiber to every household. In that case, other solutions need to be used. It is also important not to remove the existing copper network until other technology is in place so as not to disadvantage those who live in the countryside. Regarding access to an internet connection, it is still about 2 percent who lack this.

That is why the government is investing in support for broadband expansion so that rural and sparsely populated areas will also receive functioning broadband connections. The government also wants to investigate the possibility of accelerating the expansion of broadband in sparsely populated areas. In those cases, fiber cannot always be used, as it would become far too expensive to reach all households. Therefore, the government highlights wireless connection in this assignment. This will result in more households being connected faster, and it will be cheaper.

All of Sweden must function. Then all of Sweden must also have access to broadband.

Sometimes, however, we need to problematize the digital development. We need to stop and reflect on, for example, screen time. What is a reasonable amount of screen time? We need to investigate the impact of screen time more carefully. As Minister Forssmed has said: "Screen time and social media can have a negative impact, but we need to know how great an impact on health, on cognitive ability, and on mental ill-health" this has.

These are extremely important issues. Digitalization is not solely for the better.

Has a new kind of loneliness developed? I mean a digital loneliness where one is reached by constantly updated feeds about what everyone else is doing and one asks oneself: How does my life compare to theirs? How many of my Facebook friends do I meet physically? Is there a risk that one isolates oneself and only socializes online?

In SVT's news this morning, we could hear that it is noted that the self-scanning stations in our stores have an ever-increasing pressure than the regular checkout just because especially younger people do not want physical contact with people anymore. They want to advise themselves completely.

Physical inactivity versus screen time is another aspect. We need to move more. So we have the overarching question: How are we affected by the use of digital and social platforms and by screens?

A digital community can be very positive, but this can also mean a digital exclusion and a digital loneliness. If this, we need to talk more, and we need to investigate it more. It is precisely what the government has initiated.

Finally, Madam Speaker, I shall say a few words about the postal service, one of the lifelines for a functioning society. The postal financing investigation, which was commissioned by the S-government, was produced against the background of fewer and fewer letters being sent. Consequently, the postal service's revenues are decreasing, which we have heard in previous contributions. Sweden, however, still needs to have a postal service throughout the country, and therefore changes were needed.

The Government chose in January 2023 to decide on a supplementary directive to the Post Financing Investigation which concerns precisely digital mail. The reason for the supplementary directive is that the public administration needs to keep up with the digital development. There are several advantages with digital mail. The mail becomes safer and cheaper, and you can access your digital mailbox regardless of where you are.

Since there are people who, for various reasons, cannot obtain a digital mailbox, the investigator shall also produce proposals on which persons should be exempted from the requirement for a digital mailbox. This is a very important aspect to consider. There must be alternatives for those who have special needs.

Madam Speaker! Digitalization entails great opportunities to find community, new solutions, and new knowledge. At the same time, digitalization brings challenges, which can range from AI regulations and screen time to a digital exclusion or a digital loneliness. It is a matter of being able to see both sides of the coin, whether it is digital or analog.

I move for approval of the committee's proposal in the report and rejection of all reservations. Since this, as far as I know, is my last debate for this parliamentary year, I would like to wish the Speaker and the Speaker's Presidium, the chamber secretaries and staff a really nice summer. And even though I do not sit on the Committee on Transport, I would also like to wish you a nice summer.

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Anders Karlsson (C)

Madam Speaker! You raised this regarding fiber expansion in the countryside, Kjell-Arne Ottosson. You do not actually see the technology with the fiber expansion. You actually see that this is too expensive a solution. What we know is that the technology is not completely finished. Do you not see that we must take the cost for the slightly more expensive solution so that all of Sweden can be included in an efficient expansion of fast digital communication?

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Kjell-Arne Ottosson (KD)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Anders Karlsson, for the question! There is no doubt that we must strive for everyone to have the opportunity for a functioning broadband connection. Then there are certain households that are very far away from the rest of the network. And we see today how it works with links from, among others, certain companies, where one does not have the possibility and where it is located too far away.

It is perhaps the case that the cost will simply be too high depending on how the connection has been laid out. We have fiber associations, for example, in many parts of our country, not least in my and Gunilla Svantorp's municipality, which were early out just because the copper networks were dismantled. We were therefore forced to find solutions, and we found solutions. There we have fixed it.

There will be bigger problems in other parts, but of course, the priority is that everyone should have a functioning connection. Then the technology and the cost will determine whether it is via fiber in the ground or whether it is via radio link. But there is no doubt that everyone should have the possibility. There, I believe that Anders Karlsson and the undersigned are in complete agreement.

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Anders Karlsson (C)

Madam Speaker! That sounds good, Kjell-Arne Ottosson. But the problem with technology other than fiber is that it is often an inferior technology where one does not reach the same capacity. And above all, it is a higher operating cost. That cost will affect those out in the countryside.

One can look at the expansion that has been made. The low-hanging fruit has been picked first, and now we have the slightly higher costs. I believe that municipalities, together with the state, could very well be involved in financing these efficient connections, given that no new technology is on the market.

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Kjell-Arne Ottosson (KD)

Madam Speaker! I still believe that Anders Karlsson and I are not so far apart on this issue. It is obvious that we must get broadband to all households that wish for it in Sweden.

Regarding the cost, it is a fact that the government has added an additional 1.3 billion, I want to remember, just for the expansion of broadband. And one will continue at the pace required for us to reach the expansion.

Just as I said in my post, broadband is just as important as, for example, roads. It is absolutely crucial if it is to be possible to live in the countryside and if the whole of Sweden is to function.

I can reassure Anders Karlsson that these issues are very high on the minister's agenda precisely because we must ensure that we do not also get a digital exclusion there, i.e., that there are properties that cannot join in. We must ensure that we get everyone who wants to join the train on board.

I still believe that in some parts, a link via the air can be what will work. It concerns those who are - what shall we say? - extremely far away from the rest of the network. If you are going to dig many miles, the cost will become far too high, perhaps not least for a fiber association, which then will not be able to manage it.

But regardless of this, the government is allocating funds, and funds will continue to be allocated until we have an expanded broadband network throughout Sweden.

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Rashid Farivar (SD)

Madam Speaker! I and the Sweden Democrats stand behind all our reservations in the report, but in order to save time during the voting, I choose to move for approval only to reservation 18.

Madam Speaker! On the evening of December 23, 1947, at Bell Telephone Laboratories in the USA, the physicist and engineer Walter Brattain succeeded in demonstrating the first functioning transistor for his colleagues. The transistor is considered by many to be one of the greatest inventions in modern history, in principle the single most important electronic component that has paved the way for the extensive digitalization that we witness today. Walter Brattain received, together with two of his colleagues, the Nobel Prize in Physics for the transistor in 1956.

Digitalization has changed our world and will continue to do so at an ever-increasing pace. We are in a time where technology is developing at a breakneck speed and affects everything – from how we communicate, travel around and work to how we live our lives. It is therefore crucial that we understand and embrace the importance of digitalization in order to be able to shape relevant political proposals for a future that is more efficient, secure and sustainable.

Madam Speaker! Digitization has revolutionized communication. And when it comes to the citizens' legitimate expectations regarding broadband speed, broadband quality, and broadband coverage, a political action must be seen. According to the previous government's broadband strategy, the goals in two areas – access to fast broadband throughout Sweden and access to stable mobile services of good quality – are to be met by 2025. This is more or less achieved where people live, work, and trade – more needs to be done in rural areas. But it will not be achieved along railways and roads according to the latest data and forecast from the Swedish Post and Telecom Authority from 2022. The situation is far from satisfactory along national roads – there, only 39 percent of the goal is met – and high-traffic railways, where 54 percent of the goal is met.

The Sweden Democrats want to see that a review of mobile coverage along busy railway sections is carried out and that improvement measures are subsequently prioritized. This should take place in a collaboration between Trafikverket, the railway companies and the mobile operators. The same requirements shall be placed on Trafikverket and the mobile operators regarding national roads, European routes and other high-traffic roads, given the importance of data sharing between more modern cars and cloud services as well as the upcoming autonomous vehicle technology.

The Swedish Post and Telecom Authority has an important role in this overall picture by setting requirements for the mobile operators during the upcoming frequency auction for the 900-megahertz band, the 2.1-gigahertz band, and the 2.6-gigahertz band, but particularly for the 900-megahertz band with more than today's one block with coverage requirements. If the existing broadband goal is to be reached, the allocation of all blocks within all the mentioned bands may perhaps need to be conditioned on clear result targets for coverage and capacity.

Madam Speaker! In a digitized era, where electronic communication dominates, it can be easy to forget the value of the mail. The mail is an important part of our infrastructure and has a profound impact on our lives and societies. But in the same way as the Swedish rail traffic is malfunctioning today, the mail is unfortunately also unreliable.

The Swedish Post and Telecom Authority has recently determined that Postnord has failed to meet its statutory quota of 95 percent delivery reliability for letters for a single month since May 2022. The permit conditions also require Postnord to establish risk analyses in order to be able to quickly handle any problems. But the company has also not lived up to the rules in that part.

In its annual and sustainability report, Postnord devotes a very large space to diversity and equality work, that is, focuses on diversity issues instead of on the core mission. The report states, among other things: "In order to live up to high requirements and for diversity issues to come into focus within Postnord, the program Move - Change for Diversity is underway. Active diversity and equality work shall contribute to both operations and management groups better reflecting the world around them and the customers."

Madam Speaker! Postnord's core task is to prioritize the delivery of letters and parcels throughout the country - not gender quotas for managers or trying to mirror the world around them or their customers, in my opinion.

Last but not least, the question of artificial intelligence, AI, must not be forgotten, even though there is an AI Act underway in the European Parliament right now. AI opens up great possibilities. For example, it is much more efficient to write a speech with the help of AI than without. But at the same time, we have enormous challenges ahead of us to manage the less favorable sides of this technology. I look forward to us being able to shape an effective and comprehensive national AI policy after the European AI Act has been established.

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Gunilla Svantorp (S)

Madam Speaker! I don't think I heard correctly, actually. I thought, therefore, that I really must check what the member just said from the rostrum.

It is of course very important that all our authorities work with both diversity and equality. Our entire country thinks it is very important that we ensure that both men and women and people from other countries have equal opportunities, equal rights and equal obligations in this country. Therefore, it is also important that we at the political level show that we think it is very important and therefore set goals for what should be done.

But I understood, then, that the member said that one should not engage in this. Did I understand him correctly?

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Rashid Farivar (SD)

Madam Speaker! I thank Member Gunilla Svantorp for the question.

If an authority or an agency does not fulfill its basic core tasks and mandates, I do not believe that one should set diversity, inclusion, and equality as its primary mandate. The basic mandates of the Police Authority, the Transport Administration, the Energy Agency, and PostNord are not to promote diversity, inclusion, or equality. The Police's mandate is to combat crime. PostNord's mandate is to deliver letters and parcels on time and to the right customers throughout the country. I hope that the member has received the answer she wanted.

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Gunilla Svantorp (S)

Madam Speaker! Yes, I have received an answer. But I am still astonished. It is clear that basic values on which our entire society is built must also exist within the management of an agency. Regardless of whether one is employed by the police, by the postal service, in a preschool, and so on, one must know that the basic values present in the organization where one works are based on what our country has said is important, that is, for example, that men and women have equal conditions, equal opportunities, and equal obligations. If one then does not point to that and include it as one of its important tasks, does the member believe that anything would happen in this organization? Of course, it would not. That is what we have seen. If we step back and look at history, it was actually only the man who counted, to speak of the gender equality perspective in this country. We have changed this. It is thanks to that which I can stand here in the Riksdag's rostrum today and speak. One could not do that over a hundred years ago if one was a woman. So it is clear that it is very important that we hold fast to this and constantly talk about the importance of our basic values.

Then I believe the member has read this a bit poorly. Because it is clear that the agencies' core task is not this. Their core task is something else. But in their duties, it is included to ensure that they actually carry with them the basic values. I am therefore still astonished, Madam Speaker.

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Rashid Farivar (SD)

Madam Speaker! I thank you for Gunilla Svantorp's comments. I understand that she is upset by what I am saying. But it is precisely because of what these agencies have engaged in during eight years of Social Democratic governments that we have so many works and agencies that are in free fall right now. Examples of this are Trafikverket, Postnord, and Polismyndigheten. They have forgotten their core mission and engaged in diversity and inclusion.

In the text that was quoted, it stated: "In order to live up to high requirements and for diversity issues to come into focus within Postnord - - -".

But diversity is not Postnord's focus. Postnord's primary focus should be to deliver letters and parcels. How difficult is it to understand this? I am not saying that one should not focus on equality and diversity. But that is not where the focus should be. Postnord's core mission is, in fact, to deliver letters and parcels. Trafikverket's core mission is, for example, to ensure that trains run on time, not to go around and calculate what the gender distribution looks like among people. Competence, skill, and personality have nothing to do with gender. I hope that the member understands this.

It is precisely because of the view that the member and the Socialdemokrater have that they have forced this upon our agencies and authorities. We therefore unfortunately see that we have agencies and authorities in free fall.

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TREDJE VICE TALMANNEN

I want to remind the members of the Committee on Transport and Communications that we in the Chamber speak in the third person as we always speak via the Speaker. It is not directed at any specific member but is a general greeting to the entire Committee on Transport and Communications.

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Helena Gellerman (L)

Madam Speaker! Today, the Committee on Transport debates digitalization and postal issues.

When we debated digitalization and postal issues a year ago, I said that the digitalization of Swedish society had taken a large step during the last two years. The background was the pandemic and that we had started working from home, behind the computer. The development within the public sector had unfortunately gone more slowly.

It is only a year ago, and the focus then was on digitalization and making existing systems more efficient. I bring this up to show the force that is currently driving development forward at a frantic pace.

In November 2022, OpenAI released its ChatGPT. This was the starting point for other platforms launching their own systems, even though they were not fully developed, in order to keep up with the development. Now each and every one of us can test using AI. Suddenly, one can understand the power of artificial intelligence and how, for example, ChatGPT can facilitate the work of writing reports, programming, and so on.

The question is not if, but how the new technology will affect each of us. AI is in its infancy and will provide enormous advantages in healthcare, education, and research, as well as within the transport committee's own area – transport. Reports show that there is potential for savings of 140 billion within the public sector.

At the same time, AI, like all technologies, can be used for negative purposes. It can be used to control the population, spread disinformation, recreate relatives' voices in order to trick people out of money during phone calls - yes, the list can be long. The risk of spreading disinformation in a credible way is perhaps the greatest danger to our democratic system.

Under the Swedish presidency of the EU, important proposals have been developed that have a direct connection to how the EU wants to tackle AI development, including the AI Act and the Data Act. The AI Act is based on the four principles for sustainable AI: AI shall be fair and protect personal privacy while also being secure and transparent. It is a very important foundation for AI in Europe.

Madam Speaker! The Liberals are technology optimists. The development of AI has the potential to have as great an impact on our society in Sweden, within Europe, and globally as the ongoing climate development. We must embrace this fact and increase the pace of our understanding of and use of AI, so that we in Sweden - based on our values regarding individual freedom and on our unique position as the world's most innovative country - can be involved in steering how AI is applied here at home and in our global environment. It must be an AI that is based on ethical guidelines.

It is particularly important here to safeguard and develop the structures in Sweden that facilitate and drive the innovative system, for example Vinnova and the universities' work with the utilization of research results and cooperation with the business sector. We have a platform to stand on; we do not stand completely without a foundation today.

Sweden has, for example, come the furthest in Europe in the development of a technology similar to ChatGPT but based on open source software, which provides insight into how the system works. We also have great expertise in the field, which has been demonstrated, not least at the conferences organized during the Swedish presidency of the EU. Within the Swedish AI cluster, a proposal for an AI strategy for Sweden is also being developed.

Sweden needs, together with various actors, to take a unified grip on AI development. A national AI strategy is an important piece of the puzzle here, together with increased competence in all areas of society, not least at the leadership level but also through investments in the entire school and research sector to enable the upcoming transformation of all of Sweden's companies. I chose to focus on artificial intelligence in my speech today because it is by far the largest and most revolutionary change that has occurred in the past year.

The development of AI also highlights that the fundamental digitalization of our public sector must increase significantly. Today's data systems must be interconnected, and we must find efficient ways to share data. Today's legislation needs to be updated to remove obstacles to this. The development of AI is based on our ability to utilize different datasets effectively while simultaneously safeguarding personal privacy.

Responsible authorities should be given an increased mandate to drive the digitalization of the public sector. Without a good digitized basic structure, Sweden's AI development will be slowed down, and then we will not have the opportunity to influence the development in Europe and globally.

The basic structure begins with the infrastructure for data, and here we need to create better conditions for those who are to collect and provide data. Preparing and managing data is very costly, which, among other things, Lantmäteriet has calculated. Here, new structures and processes need to be identified so that we can achieve a drastic increase in the number of datasets on the market. We need to find out which data is needed and how access to these datasets can be facilitated.

The expansion of our 5G network and broadband network is very important for increasing people's and companies' access to broadband across the entire country, as well as for digital development. We need to open up for different technical solutions to provide broadband to people all over our country as soon as possible. The regulatory framework is now being reviewed step by step, not least regarding fiber deployment across municipal boundaries, which has been a hindering factor for the expansion of broadband.

We must simultaneously address the risks of digitalization. Digitalization must be combined with analyses of data security and the impact on personal privacy and cybersecurity. The Data Protection Act and other applicable laws must be continuously developed so that we can keep up with the technological development.

Furthermore, it is necessary to place a defense aspect on what we do and analyze the vulnerability when we now collect a very large amount of data with easy data access, when 5G networks cause society to be connected, and when the alternatives to the digital are being dismantled. The Liberals welcome the increased interest in our country's preparedness in these matters.

Madam Speaker! Everyone must be able to take part in the development, and there must be an opportunity to perform services without being connected. A special focus needs to be placed on ensuring that all people can perform necessary services and satisfy the needs people have of communicating with the public sector. This applies in particular to people with different functional variations, which places great demands on our authorities.

Madam Speaker! The mail in Sweden is important, not least from a preparedness perspective. The consequences of digitalization specifically have been a drastic reduction in the number of letters sent. It is important that the mail service functions throughout the country and that it can be conducted on a commercial basis. Mail and parcel deliveries are important parts of the society's infrastructure and are needed for all of Sweden to function. We must secure the mail service also moving forward when digitalization will cause more and more letters to be sent digitally.

Finally, Madam Speaker: We Liberals are technology optimists. We truly believe in Sweden's ability to take on a leadership role within AI in Europe. We believe in our capacity for data-driven innovation and that digitalization has the potential to transform our old companies as well as create new ones. We believe that with the help of digitalization and AI, we can reduce costs and thereby continue to have a good welfare state. We believe that Sweden can show the way for that development and that the risks of digitalization can simultaneously be minimized.

(Applause)

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Anders Karlsson (C)

Madam Speaker! We are here to debate digitalization and postal issues. This is a very exciting area. I want to begin by moving for approval of reservation 10 under point 5, which concerns access to electronic communications.

It is important that we succeed in completing the fiber expansion. It is not a given. One can be deceived by the fact that we have a high percentage of expansion, but just as has been said here before, it is not everyone who has access to fiber today.

The cost of succeeding with this is quite large. To achieve it, more money must be injected so that everyone in the entire country gets an equal opportunity for fiber expansion and access to fiber. Of course, there will be exceptions where this will not be achievable, just as we have discussed, but the lion's share must get fiber. The technology is so competitive and so much better at the moment.

I am proud of all the decisions that have been made to expand the fiber structure in Sweden. I myself have been involved throughout the entire journey in a municipality where I have served as chairman of the fiber company and seen all decisions and corrections of decisions. Today we are discussing that it is not possible to cooperate with municipalities. From the beginning, individual actors could enter and build up networks, which also happened. The cooperation between the municipalities is a problem today.

The robustness of the fiber network is important, Madam Speaker. We must strengthen that robustness. The fiber structure is not as robust today as the copper network. We must have more redundant systems. We must also build up battery systems as a safeguard when we experience disturbances in the system. We must manage both expansion and robustness.

Parallel to this, we have mobile systems that must function. Just as the fiber network is not built out in the entire country, the mobile network functions very differently in different parts of the country. As we now continue to build out the 5G network, forceful action and setting requirements are required so that we get coverage in large parts of the country – or in the entire country – so that it will be possible to live and operate in the entire country, just as is the case with the fiber network. We must release old technology and old parts of the network to make room for the new technology with 5G construction, just as several members have highlighted today.

We talk a lot about competitiveness and about us doing this on the market's terms. The market's terms have indeed enabled us to succeed until now. When it comes to what remains on the fiber network, however, support must be provided so that the market can manage it. I believe that the individual fiber customer and the municipality can participate in the payment, but the state must also contribute its share in this system. It involves significantly more money than what is on the table today.

I move on to the second part, which concerns postal services throughout the country. Here, too, we are calling for market solutions, Madam Speaker. According to the comments from the Swedish National Audit Office, the state subsidies were not needed, but despite this, there is today a proposal that, in my view, is based on state subsidies that actually would not be needed. We could let the market step in and handle this in a completely different way. For that reason, Madam Speaker, I would like to move for the approval of reservation 27 under point 13, which concerns this part.

It is important to have a competition that works. This is new to me, but when I look at it, I see that one, just as the National Audit Office pointed out, is making a maneuver to disturb the market in a way that is not needed. Here we must make the right decision. If we feel that we are not finished with this, I think we should stop here and demand more investigation into the matter, so that we ensure that we make the right decision in the chamber and so that we do not jeopardize competition when it comes to how package solutions and the delivery of packages shall be handled.

This is a bit of a seesaw and carousel. If one has a reduced amount of letters and an increased amount of parcels today, there are actors who can see this and find a business model so that they can come forward in a smart way. Let them do that then!

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Maria Stockhaus (M)

Madam Speaker! I intended to dwell a little on the fiber expansion. This is definitely expensive, especially what remains. Under the S government, and with the support of C, the low-hanging fruit was picked – the difficult and expensive part remains. The only low-hanging fruit that remains is the one I raised in my exchange with Gunilla Svantorp: to change the principle for localization so that city networks in a municipality can be built across the municipal border if this is closest. This has not happened until now, which is very late considering that one has had eight years to do so.

We still have a number of households left. The price tag for all of these to be reached will be quite high. This is what remains - what the previous government left behind.

Is it not then better that we invest in a mobile broadband service, so that one gets a good connection regardless of technology? Is it not more important to have that type of goal than to focus on spending millions on broadband to every single household?

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Anders Karlsson (C)

Madam Speaker! An expansion in rural areas requires, just as Maria Stockhaus said, a structure. Everything involves long distances. But a fiber expansion also supports a mast expansion to achieve efficient mobility and good functionality in coverage. Unfortunately, it is the case that where there is no fiber, the mobile coverage also often functions poorly. They are, therefore, dependent on each other. We must bear the cost together, both the one who buys the fiber service, the municipality, and the state, in order to achieve the expansion.

We must not let ourselves be deceived by the idea that there are shortcuts. We have done that quite a few times during these 15 years when it comes to other technologies. But the fiber technology is so much better.

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Maria Stockhaus (M)

Madam Speaker! Regarding the fact that fiber technology is so much better, there was a very large difference when the broadband targets were set, but since then the technology has developed and continues to develop so that the mobile solutions can deliver almost the same connection speed as fiber.

It will cost a lot of money, and there are still low-hanging fruits such as building across municipal boundaries. In that way, one could reduce the cost of reaching some households in the countryside. Why did the Center Party not do more when supporting the government to accelerate this, which actually does not cost anything extra for the state but simply facilitates expansion where the distance to the next property is shortest? The Center Party could have pushed for this, but I did not see that they pressured the government and demanded it. It could have definitely accelerated the expansion to many households that today stand without broadband connection.

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Anders Karlsson (C)

Madam Speaker! I share the member's criticism in some parts. It would have solved some but not all. This is a bit on the margins and affects a number of households, and here a dialogue is being held. But even today, when it is permitted, it is difficult to reach an agreement and move forward in these issues because there are quite large costs when one is to enter another municipal network. Without these obstacles, it could have been solved, just as the member says. But even the market sets up a number of obstacles in the current situation.

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Daniel Helldén (MP)

Madam Speaker! Digitalization and postal issues affect everyone, and we know that the questions evoke strong feelings, not least the postal issues. The recurring question when the mail comes up is: Why does the mail not arrive? What are they doing? Yes, it is Postnord that is being spoken about. But the expectation is that the mail as a service should function regardless of who manages it, and it is important that the public service functions in the entire country.

It is also important that the transition to new technology and new public services goes smoothly. Digitalization affects the mail and is completely central. It must function painlessly, but unfortunately, that is not where we are today, especially not in the countryside. Not everyone has broadband, and it is in the countryside where the problems become greatest. Therefore, it is of the utmost importance that the expansion of broadband in the countryside occurs promptly and that the state takes full responsibility for ensuring this happens.

Madam Speaker! I therefore move for approval of the Miljöpartiets reservation number 11 on access to electronic communication.

It is also of the utmost importance that mobile coverage in the country is improved. Work is currently underway with auctions for new licenses, and PTS has promised that areas with low coverage shall be prioritized in this work, which has been put forward earlier in the debate.

Madam Speaker! The possibility of working digitally on trains is an important issue because it increases the attractiveness of the railway – a concept that is unfortunately difficult to use when talking about trains today because there are so many problems with the trains. But with well-developed mobile coverage, the attractiveness can be increased. Today, up to 50 percent of railway sections lack mobile coverage. Here, however, Trafikverket's mobile system, which already exists for all tracks, could be used, just as is done in Germany. It is strange that this cannot be solved in Sweden.

Madam Speaker! I previously described digitalization as something new. That is perhaps not an entirely correct description. It is certainly new in relation to the mail, but old for most people today.

What is correct to say, however, is that artificial intelligence, AI, is on its way to revolutionizing our everyday lives completely, and it is happening incredibly fast. Through the new language models and the machine learning that AI performs today, entirely new ground has been broken. When Chat GPT was launched to the public on November 30 last year, it was clear to most that we are entering a new era that takes digitalization to entirely new heights. With new prognostic techniques, diseases can be detected in a way we never dreamed of before and new medicines can be developed. We see models that help us in climate work so that we can reduce the effects of what we unfortunately cause. Large amounts of data are consumed by AI.

Seeing how the new AI models can replace humans in more and more areas both fascinates and scares. The possibilities seem endless. The EU is working on a regulatory effort to ensure that AI is for our benefit and does not work against us. That is good. About half an hour ago, the European Parliament reached a decision on the new AI Act, and now negotiations will take place. This autumn, we hopefully will have a regulation in place.

We must not believe that this means that development is being slowed down, that we can lean back, and that the transformation of our lives will not occur. No, ChatGPT, which arrived only half a year ago, has already been further developed to new levels. The models are now better than us at most things: being doctors, lawyers, social scientists, psychologists, and teachers. Of course, there are things that we humans are still better at, but the development is moving incredibly fast. The labor market will be turned upside down, and we will see a change the likes of which we have never seen before.

Madam Speaker! It may be the case that the EU's new legislation is already outdated by the time it comes into effect. This means that we will likely have to return to the AI issues in the autumn and that we will then discuss the societal consequences rather than the regulation. The development will proceed very rapidly, and it is probably not possible to regulate it. But AI will affect everything we do. What we are seeing is a revolution and a paradigm shift.

Madam Speaker! For the sake of time, I move, as I have said, for approval only of reservation 11 regarding access to electronic communication so that the ongoing shift within digitalization and AI can be to the benefit of all people in Sweden.

The deliberation was hereby concluded.

(Decisions were made under § 19.)

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