Response to interpellation 2023/24:445 on collaborations with Israeli educational institutions
Translated from Swedish by AI; the translation may contain errors. The Swedish text is the original.
Summary AI, written in advance
The debate concerns cooperation with Israeli educational institutions. L argues that Israel has a right to defend itself against terrorism and that Sweden has a long-term interest in deepening the cooperation 1 2. L emphasizes that Israel is a democracy and that it is excluded to break off cooperation 1 2. L believes that both parties need to act responsibly for a ceasefire 3 and that the conflict is rooted in Hamas's massacre 3. V claims that Israel is not a democracy but maintains an apartheid system and commits genocide 4 5. V argues that cooperation contributes to the occupation and the genocide 4 5.
Written by AI in advance and may contain errors. The numbers lead to the speech a statement builds on; check against the text below.
Utbildningsministern Mats Persson (L)
Mr. Speaker! Lorena Delgado Varas has asked me if, and in so far as, I and the government will call on Swedish educational institutions to terminate cooperation with Israeli universities and colleges, and how I and the government ensure that Swedish research and innovation are not used for occupation and war crimes. She has also asked how I and the government support Palestinian students and students who have a connection to Palestine and ensure that the freedom of expression of students, university teachers, and researchers is guaranteed.
The terrorist organization Hamas's horrific attack on October 7, 2023, has resulted in enormous human suffering for both Israelis and Palestinians. The government's position is clear: Israel has an obvious right to defend itself against terrorism. It is also equally obvious that Israel, just like all other states, must defend itself in accordance with international law.
Sweden has for a long time had a close research cooperation with Israel. The state universities and colleges have a high degree of autonomy over their activities, and it is not the government's business to decide which international cooperation projects within education and research they should enter into. But that the activities need to be international for higher education and research to reach as high a quality as possible has been Sweden's position for a long time. International cooperation promotes not only knowledge itself but also democratic development globally. I see no reason why research or education cooperation with Israeli educational institutions should be terminated. Israel is the country within the OECD that invests the most in research and development, as a share of GDP. Sweden, on the other hand, has a long-term interest in deepening the relationship and cooperation with Israel.
During Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the government at the time urged Swedish educational institutions to terminate all cooperation with Russian state institutions. The background, which we all know, was that Russia had invaded a peaceful democratic country in our vicinity and that several of the rectors of Russian educational institutions expressed support for the invasion.
The conflict between Israel and the terrorist organization Hamas has given rise to increased concern among students in Sweden, and it is something that I am following closely. Students, teachers, and researchers have great freedom to think and express themselves freely. Universities and colleges should at the same time be a safe place for students and staff, regardless of background. An important part of academic freedom is an open climate for dialogue where different ideas can be debated against one another. But it simultaneously places demands on the academic dialogue. Both teachers and students, in mutual respect, together with the university leadership, have a responsibility to safeguard that dialogue and fundamental freedoms and rights.
Lorena Delgado Varas (V)
Mr. Speaker! It is outrageous that the government maintains Israel's right to defend itself when we have reached a situation where Israel is accused of genocide. The International Court of Justice has taken up the case, pointed out war crimes, and argues that there are reasons to believe that it is genocide. They have issued ultimatums that Israel has simply ignored.
I understand that you are close to Israel, but one cannot deny a genocide. And that is what you are doing with such statements, Minister.
That the Minister then responds that international cooperation promotes democratic development globally sounds very nice. But when a country undermines the democratic foundation that higher education should stand on, it is time to revise it. Israeli universities are far from this foundation - not just now, but particularly now.
All universities cooperate with the Israeli occupation army, even art schools that today design and produce the military's uniforms. All universities have developed and are developing both surveillance systems and weapons that are now used in the genocide and in the occupation. They have also been active in developing arguments and research to maintain and systematize the occupation. This has been done, among other things, through EU funding and in collaborations with universities and colleges here in Sweden. The new technologies and new structures have streamlined the occupation, and new weapons are tested on the Palestinian population to subsequently become export goods.
The weapons industry and the military have direct collaborations, for example, with Tel Aviv University, Technion and Hebrew University. They are all universities that Swedish educational institutions collaborate with. There are, as said, no universities in Israel that have not participated in the occupation and in the genocide. Some of them even stand on occupied land.
An example of how we bear responsibility for the occupation of Palestine and ultimately for the genocide can be described as follows. Elbit Systems, which has developed and installed the surveillance system located along the walls around the West Bank, actively participates in all the Israeli universities' student events. In addition to that, they have programs to take part in students' and researchers' work. All programs require students and researchers to sign confidentiality agreements and simply, without payment, hand over the intellectual property rights. The innovations are then used within the military and paramilitary industries as well as within the security industries.
The innovations are also used to maintain the apartheid system, the occupation, and now to drive the genocide. But it is not just about technical collaborations; for example, the occupation army's code of ethics—even if it is difficult to believe it has any—has been developed and is maintained by professors at the University of Tel Aviv. Several of our universities collaborate with the University of Tel Aviv, and our government signs agreements with Elbit Systems.
The Minister speaks about how Israel invests the most GDP in research, and that is not surprising. Through these investments, they have indeed succeeded in creating one of the largest security and weapons industries, tested on and used against Palestinians as well as legitimized via the universities. It is a shameful cycle of blood.
Utbildningsministern Mats Persson (L)
Mr. Speaker! Let us go back to October 7 last year. The terrorist organization Hamas then carried out the largest terror attack and armed attack against Israel in recent memory. The Israeli population suffers, and people are caught in the crossfire. The collective Western world expresses its condemnation of the terrorist organization Hamas and its actions against the democratic state of Israel.
This is the origin and the background. It was this active action - committing acts of terror against the civilian population in Israel - that became the starting point for the conflict we are seeing right now, where it is important that all parties act responsibly and within the framework of international law. From the government's side, we have great hopes that the ongoing negotiations on a ceasefire, which naturally also are based on the release of the hostages, will bear fruit and that we will reach a ceasefire and a peaceful solution. It is also what many other countries put forward and highlight in various international contexts.
When one listens to the member, one can get the impression that this is a conflict that has been started by the democracy Israel, when in fact it is about a terrorist organization that on October 7 carried out the horrific attack which forms the basis for the conflict we see.
When one listens to Lorena Delgado Varas, one can also get the impression that Israel is not a democracy - that all people in Israel have the same view on how the conflict should be handled or the same view on what kind of political rule Israel should have. That is not the case; there is a lively debate, because Israel is a democracy. Unlike many other countries around the world that start wars and are in armed conflicts, Israel is a democratic country where there are different opinions, which are allowed to flourish. But among the population, there is naturally a strong feeling of wanting to defend itself after a terrorist organization carried out a military attack where they targeted the civilian population.
That Sweden in this situation would take measures involving us withdrawing from different types of cooperation is excluded. Sweden is a country that wants to cooperate with democracies. We are also clear that all countries that have the right to defend themselves have the right to defend themselves within the boundaries of international law and need to do so in a responsible manner. That we in this situation would terminate different types of cooperation is, however, excluded.
Lorena Delgado Varas (V)
Mr. Speaker! One could believe that the Minister has not followed the developments surrounding the genocide in Palestine.
I can begin by saying that Israel is not a democracy. A state that maintains an apartheid system cannot be a democratic country. Nor can a state that occupies another state be.
I can also tell the minister that Israelis, including people who have been released, hold demonstrations against the government daily. They believe, in fact, that the issue has been handled completely disproportionately.
I still think it is interesting how the minister reflects on the differences in support towards students affected by the war in Ukraine compared to students affected by the genocide in Palestine. Between Russia and Ukraine, a war is de facto ongoing where two armies meet each other, and we support Ukraine's right to defend itself. But when it comes to the genocide in Palestine, it is not armies meeting each other, but rather a ruthless army committing genocide on civilians, unarmed Palestinians, in an indiscriminate manner, with carpet bombing, tanks, white phosphorus, and snipers. This power dynamic should make it even more urgent for the Swedish government to act.
The Minister is right that students, teachers, and researchers have great freedom to think and express themselves freely. Our higher education institutions should stand on democratic foundations. But then the genocide of the Palestinians occurred, and it turned out that the foundation was not particularly stable. Then people started making a difference. Students who are told not to wear the kufiyan, students who are not allowed to use the Palestinian flag, teachers who are threatened with not getting extensions or with having their courses cancelled, and students who are photographed by guards ordered by the management – the examples from Sweden's higher education institutions are many. There are many teachers and students who have contacted me to tell me what is happening.
There is a big difference if one wants to discuss, for example, Ukraine compared to the genocide in Gaza. It started with students, teachers, and researchers wondering when the statement about the genocide in Gaza would come from the educational institutions. It was, however, a flat no, despite having been so quick to express sorrow and concern over Ukraine – something everyone was proud of. One is also not willing to see the Palestinian students and those who have loved ones in Palestine and how they are doing. One is, however, willing to do that regarding the Ukrainian students – which is completely right. That is how it should be, but it must be consistent for everyone.
Universities and colleges have always, in all countries, been the democratic stronghold where students discuss and develop theories to move society forward and where one contributes positively to our future. Therefore, it is often those who stand at the center during dictatorships. It is there that resistance against dictatorships is built, questions are asked, democracy movements are built, and refuge is sought. We saw that in Chile during the dictatorship, as well as in Iran. We have also seen it at universities in South Africa when they fought against apartheid. But at Israeli universities, we see instead how the apartheid system is applied against Palestinian students and that many teachers are active in the settlement movement and actively work to bypass accusations of, for example, war crimes.
This does not promote democratic development. Instead, it leads to us indirectly supporting an apartheid system, an occupation state, and a genocide.
Utbildningsministern Mats Persson (L)
Mr. Speaker! I am in shock. It is a staggering statement. Israel is not a democracy, says Lorena Delgado Varas. It is a staggering statement. And the member says this only to admit in the next breath that not everyone in Israel thinks the same, that there is a flourishing debate in Israel and that one is allowed to hold demonstrations against the Israeli government in Israel. Exactly - Israel is a democracy where one is allowed to think differently. It is staggering to stand in the Swedish Riksdag and say that Israel is not a democracy.
I must ask the question: Does the member consider Hamas to be a terrorist organization?
Mr. Speaker! I am very impressed by how Swedish educational institutions have handled the situation that has arisen. They have said in a very clear way that it is not their task to take a foreign policy stance when it comes to the conflict between Israel and Palestine. This is something else entirely than when Russia invaded Ukraine, which is a democratic state, and challenged the entire world order and the peaceful and democratic order that we have built the entire Western world on. It is something completely different than a conflict that, in fact, has its basis in that a terrorist organization - in this case Hamas - on October 7 attacked civilians in Israel. Israel therefore has the right to defend itself - obviously within the limits of international law.
Both parties need to act in this situation to achieve a ceasefire. This is the Swedish government's view and the American government's view. There are many in the Western world who now think that both parties need to act responsibly. But Israel is not Russia. Israel is a democracy that was subjected to a terror attack on October 7.
Mr. Speaker! In this debate, I would also like to address the Jewish population and emphasize that the Swedish government, in sharp contrast to Lorena Delgado Varas, stands by the fact that Israel is a democracy and takes issues of antisemitism with the utmost seriousness. I fully understand that people of Jewish background are following this debate with horror and dismay and are in shock. I am very surprised by this contribution.
Lorena Delgado Varas (V)
Mr. Speaker! I begin by turning to the Jewish population.
One continues to equate the Israeli state with the Jewish population, and it is one of the biggest problems when discussing this issue. There is a difference between the Israeli state and the Jewish population, and I hope that the minister has a grasp of that.
I cannot feel that Mats Persson and I will land closer to each other, but that is probably not strange. We live today with a right-wing extremist government that is not willing to see Israel's crimes. Israel also currently has the most right-wing extremist government. The previous governments have also not done anything to stop the occupation, but I assume that plays well with this Swedish government.
It has now been 147 days, and nearly 40,000 have been murdered. I believe the figure when it comes to children is around 14,000. In no way did the minister mention all the innocent civilians who have been murdered.
All over the world - even here in Sweden - people are protesting against the genocide in streets, squares, and universities. Today, almost the entire population of Gaza has been pushed into Rafah, where the bombings continue. Now the people of Gaza are starving. Many have died of starvation, and this figure is expected to increase exponentially. Because the Israeli army is so democratic, over 140 Palestinians were massacred yesterday when they collected flour from the few aid trucks that reached there. They, therefore, waited for starving people to reach the aid to feed their children and the elderly and murdered them.
I want to send a greeting to all students who have been affected by persecution at universities and colleges. I also want to send a greeting to the rectors all over the country: Do not stand there and watch while a genocide is being committed!
Utbildningsministern Mats Persson (L)
Mr. Speaker! I want to begin by saying that it is clear that the conflict we are currently seeing in Israel and Palestine affects us all. Both parties in this conflict need to act responsibly and do their utmost to reach a ceasefire.
I believe that many of us in this situation feel empathy for the civilians on both sides of the border who are becoming innocent victims in this conflict. Both Israelis and Palestinians are having to face the consequences of the conflict that is currently taking place. One must, however, return to the fact that this is rooted in the terrorist organization Hamas's massacre on October 7.
I note that the member chose not to answer my open question regarding whether she considers the organization Hamas to be a terrorist organization, which the EU has labeled the organization as. This makes me very concerned. I do not believe that one should underestimate the signal value of us having a discussion in Sweden that in an unambiguous way points out Israel as the evil when this is a conflict where many innocent people fall victim.
The Swedish left - in a broad sense - has revealed itself since October 7. One cannot stand on the right side of history. We know that there are major problems with antisemitism in the Swedish left in a broad sense, and these have shown themselves very clearly since October 7.
TJÄNSTGÖRANDE ÅLDERSPRESIDENTEN
I want to remind that the chamber's deliberations must not be disturbed by observers in the gallery. I may have the guards remove those persons who disturb the order as soon as possible.
Source: The Swedish Parliament. The speeches come from the open data of the Riksdag, translated into English by AI, which may contain errors.