Response to interpellation 2024/25:275 on the situation in Syria

Utrikesministern Maria Malmer Stenergard (M)

Madam Speaker! Ola Möller has asked me what measures I intend to take to persuade Turkey to respect international law and international humanitarian law in Syria, as well as to ensure the rights of Kurds and other groups to peace and freedom.

Let me begin by emphasizing that the fall of the brutal Assad regime is a historical opportunity for the Syrian people to shape their own future and build a free and democratic Syria. Sweden wants to support that development - politically and through aid. Sweden, and the EU, are clear that the transition process that has now begun must be inclusive and respect human rights, including for all of Syria's minority groups and regarding women's rights. Syria's territorial integrity needs to be preserved and respected. All parties must respect international law, including international humanitarian law.

Turkey has a significant influence in Syria. It is important to have a close and sincere dialogue with both Turkey and other regional and international actors regarding the developments in the country. The EU has on several occasions conveyed its clear positions to Turkey, most recently during Commission President von der Leyen's meeting with President Erdogan in December 2024.

Syria remains one of the world's worst humanitarian crises. Sweden continues to provide humanitarian and other support throughout Syria, including in the northeast. Sweden's humanitarian aid to Syria in 2024 amounted to nearly a quarter of a billion kronor. In addition to this is the long-term Swedish resilience support, which, among other things, aims to promote freedom and combat oppression. Together with and within the EU, the work continues to see what more we could do to support Syria and the Syrian population.

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Ola Möller (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you for the answer, Minister for Foreign Affairs!

I think it is extremely important that the issue of Syria's development and the surrounding powers' influence is kept alive here in the chamber. We had a debate last week, and now another debate is coming; this will well become a recurring theme.

I think that one should begin the discussion with the developments in Turkey to understand what forces we are dealing with when it comes to the developments in Rojava. The developments in Turkey have been very negative over the last decade. Right now we see how trade union and political leaders are imprisoned. We see that media and opposition are silenced and arrested. We see how women, minorities and hbtqi-persons are oppressed and persecuted.

Previously, Turkey has also had perhaps not an explicit doctrine but an attitude that one messes with its own Kurds but leaves the Kurds of other countries alone. That doctrine has successively changed in step with, above all, Syria being destabilized and falling into a civil war.

This is a highly alarming development because it also shows the Great Turkish ambitions to spread across the region. At the same time, it is a complex picture. Erdogan is playing a double game against the Kurds, where he negotiates peace on one end and helps bomb them on the other. An important factor in this is that Erdogan's view on international law and on when it is convenient to follow the rules and be a friend or an enemy changes very quickly. It is hardly that his own AKP members can keep up with the changes.

In that perspective, one must also understand that approximately 15 percent of Syria is occupied by Turkey and has been for a long time. The risk is that Turkey actually bites down, just as it has done in other parts where it has been actively occupying. Exactly in what way Turkey will remain, the future will reveal.

Turkey supports de facto jihadists who are of the same ilk as HTS, which is also an example of Erdogan thinking it is appropriate to cooperate with actually anyone, at any time, and about anything. This also means that the burgeoning development and the democratic opportunity that exists in Syria risk being torn apart. The only truly strong, democratic, and functional force in Syria is the self-administration in Rojava in northeastern Syria, and therefore it is extremely important that we, as allies of Turkey, actually choose to speak plainly in these matters, not only within the framework of EU cooperation but also as Natoland and as an individual country.

I note in the Foreign Minister's response that she points very much to what is common within the EU. But just as in other discussions we have had, I hope that Sweden can be an independent, strong voice for democracy, human rights, and democratic development.

The question is about what we can do concretely. In light of this and based on the meeting with Turkey that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Justice had the day before yesterday, I would like to hear how the conversations went regarding the issue of the democratic development in Syria, Turkey's involvement, and the de facto support for jihadists who, in general terms, should also be classified as terrorists.

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Håkan Svenneling (V)

Madam Speaker! Together with, among others, the Speaker of the House, I spent the morning in a meeting with the Minister for Foreign Affairs' cabinet secretary, that is, her closest staff member, before she is to attend the EU Committee's meeting tomorrow and on Monday travel to Brussels for a meeting with the other EU countries in the Foreign Affairs Committee. One of the issues on the agenda is Syria. These are, therefore, highly current discussions that are now being held.

The EU's position is beginning to take shape more and more. The Swedish government claims that they are an active party in this, but it has been very clear that other EU countries have taken the lead and shaped the position we now see regarding Syria. Several of the things we have requested have started to appear, including that they support the peace process in accordance with UN resolution 2254. At the same time, one must understand that aid to Syria must increase - both humanitarian aid and development aid. One needs to ease the sanctions, for example the economic ones - above all so that so-called remittances, which involve sending money to relatives and friends, can be resumed so that one can begin to truly rebuild the country.

We see a very worrying development, which Ola Möller also took up, regarding the government's position. During the NATO process, Sweden signed a memorandum which entails regular meetings with Turkey. Such a first meeting was held the day before yesterday in Turkey, after some various difficulties with aircraft and other things. This shows that Sweden very often aligns itself closely with Turkey and listens to what Turkey says rather than forming its own opinion on how things actually look on the ground in Syria.

The government took another step with the former Foreign Minister Billström and the distancing from the PYD, which is one of the democratic forces in northeastern Syria. Consequently, we have ended up in a situation where Sweden is following Turkey's lead. Sweden has distanced itself from democratic forces in Syria. As a Swede, I feel that I want to hide my face in shame because we have ended up here.

One tries to give the impression that one is meeting with Syrian women's organizations, but at the same time, we saw that the HTS leader Julani could not even manage to shake hands with Germany's Foreign Minister Baerbock when he met her.

Sweden should position itself completely differently and move away from Turkey, which is not being done. Turkey is one of the countries that has let through the most IS fighters from Western countries over the years and contributed to IS being able to have such a strong position in the region.

Now there is a risk that IS will return, and therefore we need to activate the global coalition against Daish, also called IS, to ensure that they do not grow. How do you do that in the best way? Yes, by supporting the Kurdish groups and the Kurdish autonomy in the north, which are now trying to be part of the inclusive process in Syria. It is there that IS warriors and IS terrorists are held imprisoned. The Kurds devote significant resources to ensuring they are kept locked up, but they are simultaneously attacked by Turkish-supported groups trying to destroy democracy.

There is another party that the government stands very close to. It is Israel, which has also violated Syria's territorial integrity and occupied areas in southern Syria in violation of both previous peace agreements between Syria and Israel and international law and the territorial borders.

I think the government needs to reflect on the positions they take and whether they need to distance themselves further from Turkey than we currently see them doing. I am very concerned about the Foreign Minister's various trips to Ankara.

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Jacob Risberg (MP)

Madam Speaker! There are many interpellations today. It is exciting to get to speak about different subjects. Now it is about Syria.

I am very happy that the Assad regime has fallen. It is very gratifying. At the same time, we face an incredibly exciting and difficult situation regarding Syria's future. No one knows where it will land.

Under the Assad regime, there has been a relatively free self-governance in northeastern Syria, in Rojava, just as previous speakers have pointed out. There has been an emerging democracy. A considerable amount has been invested in women's rights. It must be said that the governance was far from perfect, but it still differed very much from the rest of Syria under the Assad regime's total oppression.

In the Foreign Minister's response to Ola Möller, there is talk of a close and sincere dialogue with Turkey and that the EU has on several occasions conveyed its clear positions to Turkey. But the clear positions are not described with a single word. What is actually thought?

It is somewhat symptomatic that in the Foreign Minister's response to Ola Möller, the Kurds are mentioned only on one occasion, and it is in the repetition of Ola Möller's question. The Foreign Minister does not even seem able to speak about the Kurds except when Ola Möller is quoted. What is the goal? In what way can Sweden contribute to supporting the Kurds in Syria so that they are not subjected to attacks? And above all – how are the risks with IS, which Håkan Svenneling spoke about, being handled?

The Foreign Minister also did not mention with a single word what requirements were set for Turkey when they met. I simply wonder what the Foreign Minister said about Syria when she met her Turkish colleague last week. What was expressed regarding the rights of the Kurds in Syria?

How does the government intend to continue strengthening the Kurds in Syria? Sweden admittedly has an agreement with Turkey regarding regular meetings, but it is perhaps time to remind the government that we are actually members of Nato now. We do not need to continue crawling for them. We do not need to be so submissive. We can return to the criticism that existed towards Turkey and the faltering democracy there that existed before the entire Nato process was set in motion.

I would therefore like to have answers on what requirements are being placed on Turkey and how one intends to strengthen the Kurds' rights. Will we at all get to hear the word Kurds from the Foreign Minister in the speaker's chair?

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Kadir Kasirga (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Ola Möller, for highlighting this important issue!

The regime change in Damascus has sparked both hope and concern. It is gratifying that the dictator Bashar al-Assad, responsible for years of oppression and war crimes, is finally gone. But as an old proverb goes: When a tyrant falls, it is not always freedom that takes its place. That is exactly what Syria risks now when power has been taken over by Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, formerly al-Nusra, and Ahmed al-Sharaa or Abu Mohammed al-Julani. It is very difficult to know what the individuals are actually called.

Their Islamist agenda threatens Syria and risks plunging the country into a new, repressive era. Elections have been postponed indefinitely, and power has been concentrated in Islamist movements that do not respect the rights of minorities, women's freedom, or basic democratic principles. The future that many Syrians dreamed of risks being transformed into yet another dark chapter in the country's history.

At the same time, we see a counterweight in northeastern and western Syria, where the Kurds in Rojava continue to fight for a different future. They have built a social model that stands for equality, democracy, and inclusion. This is not only a source of inspiration but also a concrete contrast to the Islamist fundamentalism that al-Nusra and Turkey's president Erdogan advocate.

My question to the Minister for Foreign Affairs is what demands the Minister has put forward to Turkey to cease the airstrikes against Rojava. Has Sweden's NATO membership now meant that we turn a blind eye to Turkey's aggressions against those who stand on the front line for democracy and freedom? This concerns the peace activists who stood against IS and defeated them.

Madam Speaker! Sweden must use its influence in the EU, NATO, and the UN to put pressure on Turkey and protect Rojava and all other minorities in Syria. Sweden's credibility as a defender of human rights is at stake. We cannot be passive when Turkey's attacks threaten one of the few bright spots in Syria: the social model in Rojava. Sweden must take a clear stand for democracy, equality, and human rights in Syria.

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Utrikesministern Maria Malmer Stenergard (M)

Madam Speaker! Now that the ruthless Assad regime has fallen, the Syrian people must be given the opportunity to build a free and democratic Syria. This process must be Syrian-led and include the entire Syrian society, not least women and minorities. Sweden, the EU, the UN and our partners stand ready to support the Syrian people in this task.

I will honestly say that I am concerned, not least about the situation of women. I had a conversation yesterday with women's rights activists on the ground in Syria, and they expressed great concern. This was also an issue that I raised with my foreign minister colleague in Turkey at the meeting on Tuesday.

Syria faces great challenges. The situation on the ground remains unstable in parts of the country, for example in the northeast. The government is following the whole situation closely and is concerned by reports of continued fighting in northern Syria. It is of great importance that all parties comply with the protection of civilians and civil infrastructure as well as unimpeded humanitarian access in accordance with international humanitarian law. De-escalation and stability are important to counter refugee flows and for the possibility of providing the right to peace and freedom for all Syrians, including the Kurds.

The risk of violence-seeking extremism remains widespread. We share the global community's concern regarding increased attacks from the terrorist group Daish, whose violence particularly affects ethnic and religious minorities, not least Christians. Sweden is part of the global coalition to combat Daish, an important cooperation to counter terrorism and instability. It is extremely important to ensure security in the camps in northeastern Syria that are controlled by the Kurdish-led autonomy and where, among others, Daish members are held. It is positive that the transitional administration in Damascus and the Kurdish-led autonomy in the northeast are pursuing a dialogue and that the ceasefire between the parties seems to be holding.

Madam Speaker! Turkey is and remains a central actor in Syria. The Turkish border with Syria constitutes NATO's southern flank. Turkey also has security interests regarding Syria, not least against the background of the terrorist attacks that have been carried out against Turkey by groups based in Syria.

It is fundamental that Syria's territorial integrity is respected in order to be able to build a stable Syria. If this is also clear for the EU, including in the conclusions from the European Council in December.

As always, we emphasize that international law must be respected. As allies, it is important to conduct a dialogue with Turkey regarding the situation in Syria bilaterally, through the EU and through Nato, to secure Turkey's security interests in a way that also contributes to long-term stability in Syria.

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Ola Möller (S)

Madam Speaker! I thank the Minister for Foreign Affairs for the answer.

An important factor in Syria's potential democratic development is how the democratic development in Turkey progresses. In this perspective, support for human rights and democracy work in Turkey is crucial. I know that the government is currently reviewing this support. I really want to urge the Foreign Minister to see the connection so that we do not end up in a situation where Sweden phases out long-standing human rights and democracy work in Turkey and believes that it would not have effects on how Turkey acts in other countries. This is intimately connected.

I would also like to hear a reasoning from the Minister for Foreign Affairs regarding the embassy in Damascus and whether we could increase our presence there. We do need eyes from people on the ground.

I am receiving the same signals as the Minister for Foreign Affairs regarding women's rights. We know through eyewitnesses and depictions on the ground that women are being kidnapped, that there are demands that they should wear niqabs and so on. This is extremely alarming. It is also worrying that women have been rejected from so-called religious court meetings where leaders of different groups meet. When Kurdish women have arrived as representatives for their population, they have been questioned and rejected. Negotiations have also been held where leaders for HTS have sat with Kalashnikovs in their hands during the talks.

With increased presence, we would get more eyes both on the ground in Damascus and on what is happening in northeastern Syria. This is a very interesting question, and I would like the Foreign Minister to elaborate on the thoughts surrounding it. Sweden does, after all, have a tradition of good diplomatic standing in large parts of the world.

There is another important issue linked to the government's actions in the conflict between Israel and Palestine, which was debated just before this debate, namely how international law should be handled. Individuals in the Syrian leadership have de facto committed crimes against humanity. There is evidence for it. There is no doubt about the matter. Previously, Syria under the Assad regime has ignored calls from the ICJ regarding what applies. But now there is a historical opportunity. If one truly wants to build democracy, one should punish those who have committed extremely grave abuses in large parts of Syria, in Idlib and in other places.

I want to hear the Foreign Minister reason on this as well. How are the EU and Sweden – hopefully as champions of international law – doing their part to ensure that the new Syrian regime does not enjoy impunity just because the international community is so keen on achieving democratic development?

I have, therefore, two questions that I would very much like to hear the Foreign Minister reason about. They concern, on the one hand, how she views the embassy's presence, and on the other hand, how we ensure that those who are in the leadership of the new Syrian regime are punished according to international law.

If the Foreign Minister has time, I would also like her to state where Turkey's borders are in relation to Syria. It is somewhat unclear. Territorial integrity is to be respected, which has not been done for a long time. It is said here that international law shall apply. What does the Foreign Minister then mean that the border is? Does it run north or south of Afrin and Kobane?

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Håkan Svenneling (V)

Madam Speaker! I share the Foreign Minister's view that we are at an important stage, with good opportunities for Syria after many years of war. I believe it amounted to 14 years of war in Syria, so this is truly a new and positive stage. But the concern still remains.

I look forward to hearing what you come to regarding at the EU meeting on Monday. It is good that the EU is an active party and tries to contribute to a positive development in Syria.

It is good that the Foreign Minister is engaging for women's rights and has raised these issues. The part of Syria where women have the most rights is in northeastern Syria, in Rojava, and it is there that there are opportunities to build further on women's participation in political processes.

We share the concern for IS and what IS might do. But then one should also be worried about Turkey's bombings of Rojava. One should also be worried about Turkey's mercenaries who are located in Syria. Turkey plays a destructive role in the Middle East and in Syria. As Foreign Minister, one should not have such positive hopes for Turkey as one does at the current moment. I am worried about the government's close ties to Turkey's government. It puts Sweden in a somewhat contradictory position. On one hand, one wants to promote women's rights, and on the other hand, one is very close to a government that shrinks women's rights both inside and outside Turkey.

It should be added that the Foreign Minister raises the territorial integrity, which I fundamentally think is very good and positive. If it is included in the EU's position and if one stands up for it against Turkey, Israel and others who try to question Syria's borders, we have in any case come a bit of the way in building peace, freedom and faith in the future in a Syria that for all too long has been afflicted by war and destruction.

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Jacob Risberg (MP)

Madam Speaker! I thank the Minister for Foreign Affairs for the answer. I also want to thank my fellow debaters. It feels as if we are relatively in agreement about what is required. I believe we all hope for a peaceful future for the people of Syria with growing democracy. But as has been said, it is difficult to know how it will become.

I also want to thank the Minister for Foreign Affairs for being very clear in highlighting the rights of the Kurds and also women's rights.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs mentioned Turkey's security interests. But I did not hear particularly much about what requirements the Minister for Foreign Affairs set for Turkey. She speaks about the importance of territorial integrity and international law, but what specific requirements did she set for Turkey? The question can be linked to what Ola Möller raised about where the border between Turkey and Syria actually lies.

This question also concerns Israel. Since 1967, Israel has occupied the Golan Heights, which are part of Syria's territory. We saw now, after the fall of Syria, that Israel reinforced and expanded this occupation further. I would like to have some sharper wording regarding that part of Syria's territorial integrity.

I would like to hear some sharper statements regarding the demands on Turkey concerning international law and territorial integrity. And I hope that in the future we can cooperate in building a strong and growing democracy for all the people of Syria.

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Kadir Kasirga (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you for the answers, Minister for Foreign Affairs! I would, however, like to once again raise the question regarding Sweden's position on Turkey's aggression against Rojava. An aggression is taking place there where Turkish combat aircraft bomb the Rojava area daily and where civilians are also affected. I therefore return to my question: Will the Minister raise this issue and Turkey's aggression at the ministerial meeting at the EU level?

It is now very important that the EU sets demands on the new government in Damascus but also on the neighboring countries, including Turkey, which is currently playing an aggressive and destructive role in the region. The Syrians need peace and freedom, not more war. Especially the Syrian Democratic Forces, SDF, which have stood against IS/Daish and joined the international coalition against terrorism and Daish, are very important and constitute a very important part of this coalition. We in Sweden are part of the coalition, and this obliges Sweden to stand by its coalition partners in this matter and not leave them in the lurch.

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Utrikesministern Maria Malmer Stenergard (M)

Madam Speaker! Sweden has a long-term bilateral cooperation with Turkey. The Government launched a bilateral security dialogue with Turkey earlier this week, which several speakers have touched upon previously. It is about developing our joint work with an emphasis on terrorism and organized crime. This work continues in full force, among other things against the terrorist organization Daish.

The Swedish Security Service and the Swedish Police Authority have built up a well-functioning cooperation with their counterparts in Turkey. We also have a well-developed legal cooperation between our respective justice departments. In our bilateral dialogue with Turkey, Sweden will continue to emphasize the importance of Syria's sovereignty and territorial integrity being respected.

Given the current developments, it becomes even more important to provide support to create the conditions for a free and peaceful Syria. Syria remains one of the world's worst humanitarian crises. Sweden's humanitarian aid in Syria amounted to 252 million kronor during 2024 and will continue during 2025. In addition to this is the large Swedish core support to humanitarian actors operating in different parts of the country, such as World Food Programme, UNHCR and Unicef.

The government decided last year on a new regional aid strategy for the Syria crisis. The strategy aims to promote freedom, combat oppression and strengthen the Syrian people's resilience, among other things by protecting the rights of religious minorities, combating terrorism and contributing to that people can live and support themselves in Syria and its neighboring countries.

In addition, the government made a decision in December regarding humanitarian support of 14 million kronor for the International Committee of the Red Cross's work in Syria. The support is used, among other things, to assist people who have now been released from prisons and wish to be reunited with their families. Also in northeastern Syria, Sida's partner organizations reach out directly to people on the ground with basic community services and support for local civil society organizations.

A question came from Ola Möller regarding the embassy's presence in Damascus. We still have an embassy there, but it was relocated to Beirut in 2012. Staff now travel regularly to Syria and Damascus. It is a bit too early at this stage to make any announcements regarding potential changes, but this is of course something we are following closely and also have preparedness for.

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Ola Möller (S)

Madam Speaker! Thank you, Minister, for the answer! I believe that this matter regarding the embassy's presence and that Sweden is an early actor in that context is very important, so I appreciate that the Minister for Foreign Affairs chose to answer the question. The others did not get any answer.

I believe it is also important to remember that the Kurdish autonomy would likely have managed to push back the jihadists if Turkey had not bombed. It is de facto that the Kurds fought the worst terrorist organization humanity has seen in a very long time, with the help of us and others. So if Turkey stops bombing and does not interfere in internal affairs in Syria, the Kurds would probably manage this. The risks in this, such as Kurdish guards throwing away their weapons because they see jihadists and Turkish planes coming towards the camps, threaten large parts of our freedom. It is an enormous threat, and therefore this issue is so very important.

One can only hope that the new administration in the USA chooses to continue its presence. I believe that it is one of the few things that de facto keeps Turkey somewhat in check. They do not want to clash with the USA. One can only keep their fingers crossed that the USA chooses to maintain its regional presence.

Then there is a question hanging in the air that I would also like to hear the Foreign Minister answer. She can skip all other questions and answer this one. Does the Foreign Minister share her predecessor's distancing from the PYD/YPG? Does the current Foreign Minister stand by her distancing from those freedom fighters, women and men, who fought back Daesh, or does the current Foreign Minister have a somewhat more sober view of who is doing right and fighting for freedom and who wants to deprive us of it?

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Utrikesministern Maria Malmer Stenergard (M)

Madam Speaker! In this situation, as has been said, it is too early to draw any firm conclusions about where Syria is headed. Political promises and program statements must also be put into action.

This is an opportunity for the Syrian people to shape their country and their future, and in that, all Syrians' human rights must be respected. The transition must be led by the Syrian people. Sweden and the EU, in cooperation with our regional and global partners, will continue to contribute to this process.

I received a question from Ola Möller. I was very clear at the press conference in Turkey on Tuesday that I and the government, when it comes to PYD and YPG, fully stand behind the statement that was made in connection with the NATO meeting in Madrid, that is to say that we do not give any support to these organizations at all.

Håkan Svenneling previously said in the debate that he is concerned about the Foreign Minister's travels to Ankara. It is no secret that Håkan Svenneling and his party would have preferred that we were not members of Nato, but now we are, thank goodness. As a consequence of this, we have a close cooperation with Turkey regarding the fight against terrorism but also serious organized crime. I assess that this is absolutely necessary because we see that serious criminals operate to a large extent from Turkey.

These are issues that S, V and MP do not hold close to their hearts, but I assert that it is a genuine Swedish interest to work in every way to counter terrorism and serious organized crime.

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

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