Response to interpellation 2022/23:22 on the school market

Statsrådet Lotta Edholm (L)

Madam Speaker! The Member of Parliament has asked me how I intend to ensure that the tax money allocated to the students' schooling also goes towards the students' education, how I intend to act to counter school segregation, and how I intend to act to ensure the public's and the media's oversight of the independent schools' activities.

A starting point for the government's reform work during the mandate period is to provide schools throughout Sweden with equal conditions and to strengthen the quality of operations. We also want to develop the right to choose a school and preserve the diversity of providers and at the same time significantly reduce the scope for actors with quality deficiencies.

Firstly: Regarding the financing of students' education, the government intends to take steps to introduce a nationally binding school fee norm in order to increase equality in Swedish schools across the country through state control of the financing. We further intend to develop legislation which means that profit distribution shall not be permitted during the first years after a school has been started or purchased by a new owner. Additionally, we want to introduce new legislation which means that if it is discovered that the school fee is used to finance activities other than school activities, the paid school fee can be reclaimed, which is something that is lacking today.

Secondly: An important measure to counteract school segregation is to reform the system for school choice and admission. We want to introduce a regulatory framework for a school choice based on a common and mandatory school choice, supported by better information to parents and students about which options actually exist. Furthermore, the maximum waiting time for independent schools shall be shortened significantly compared to today.

For the third point: The Government considers that better transparency is needed in independent schools - legal, economic, and pedagogical. Unlike Linus Sköld, however, we do not want the principle of public access to be introduced in independent schools. The principle of public access is poorly suited for smaller, independent schools. Instead, a transparency principle should be introduced for independent schools that becomes a counterpart to the principle of public access for public providers for private providers. The Government intends to give the Skolinformationsutredningen an additional directive to submit a proposal for such a transparency principle.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Linus Sköld (S)

Madam Speaker! I thank the Minister for Education for the answer, even though I think the answer raises more questions than it resolves.

I start from the beginning when it comes to profit in schools. Those who run a school to enrich themselves or their shareholders have incentives to sideline the school's actual purpose, namely knowledge and values and to level the differences in students' life circumstances.

In order to be able to make money from their school, the companies must focus on segregating out a high-performing student base. Through the school's location, through their own marketing, through maintaining the grade average, through purchase time as a basis for selection, through references on applying school children, through switching the language of instruction to English, or by introducing rigid dress codes, students from good socioeconomic conditions are attracted and others are alienated or shut out.

With a pure high-performance student base, the class sizes can then be increased, the teacher density lowered, the qualification level of the staff reduced, teacher salaries lowered, access to school libraries and student health lowered, and a surplus can arise.

We also see examples of what I would say borders on fraud in the name of profit-seeking - Realgymnasiet's horse training without horses or Praktiska Gymnasiet's transport training, where the students who are trained to become truck drivers do not receive a driver's license upon completion of the training. These are two recent examples of how impaired operations can lead to large surpluses.

The surplus can then be taken out by the school company in several ways. Profit distribution to the owner is obviously what is most in focus. But many school companies are part of a group, and in that case, the surplus can be transferred via group contributions to a parent company, and the profit is taken out from there. The surplus can also be used to expand and in that way increase the company's value, that is, by buying or starting new schools. The school's owner can also own another company that deals with other things, for example real estate, cleaning, or school meals. By the school company then paying overprices for rent or cleaning, the owner can move money to their other company and take out the profit there.

The question for today's interpellation was how the Minister intends to ensure that the tax money allocated to students' schooling also goes towards the students' education. When the Minister of Education in his answer says that school funds can be reclaimed if they are used for something other than school activities, it is therefore interesting to hear more about what the Minister assesses to be school activities.

Is profit distribution school activity? Is the acquisition of new schools school activity? Is group contributions school activity? Are over-rents school activity? Or how does the Minister mean that this possibility to demand back paid school money shall ensure that the tax money goes to the students' education?

The Tidö Agreement also describes that the government wants to introduce a sanction ladder where a limitation on profit distribution in the event of quality deficiencies is one of the sanctions. If a transport program at a high school does not provide students who are studying the program to become truck drivers with the qualification to drive a truck, how much profit does the Minister for Education think that school should be allowed to distribute?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Camilla Hansén (MP)

Madam Speaker! Today we are discussing the market school with the Minister for Education. In Miljöpartiet, we believe it is important to move away from profit as a driver for education. We want the drivers when organizing education to be the students' knowledge and the quality of the education.

Then I want to immediately clear up this point that everyone, of course, wants us to have good schools. I understand that the Minister for Education and the government want that, and we want it too. But we perhaps see slightly different obstacles and opportunities for just that.

Part of what I am considering regarding allowing profit is the legitimacy of allowing profit distribution. We know now that the government's purpose is to prohibit profit distribution during the first years when a school is started, and that there should be some requirements regarding that.

I have a question regarding the area of the market school. Approximately 70 percent of Sweden's parents who have children in school believe that one should not have profit distribution within tax-funded school. The opinion polls after the election show that voters from all parties largely agree that profit should not be taken from tax money in school. I am therefore wondering how one is to find the legitimacy to still allow tax money to slip away somewhere other than to education.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Statsrådet Lotta Edholm (L)

Madam Speaker! I believe that the most difficult challenges facing Swedish schools right now concern equality, that there is such a large difference, above all, when it comes to how much money Sweden's municipalities invest in their schools, but also when it comes to, for example, teacher qualifications, student health, and those types of issues. We also see that this lack of equality leads to large differences in quality.

We see that we have major problems with many students not achieving the passing levels in primary school so that they can eventually enter upper secondary school.

I feel, for my part as Minister for Education, that the most important thing is to ensure that we have a system that guarantees equality. That is why we are now proposing a national school funding norm to address the equality problems that exist. They will, of course, also affect the independent schools.

The second thing is that we shall, through legislation and regulations, attempt to ensure that the quality in the friskolor is maintained. This naturally includes that, for example, the ownership review must be tightened. We should ensure that we do not allow profit during the first years when a friskola has started. This is because it is important to create a capital base so that if something happens, for example a reduced student base, it does not lead to the students suddenly being left without schooling. We will also propose the reclamation of school fees, for example in the case of criminal activity.

I actually believe that we could agree on all of this across party lines, namely a tightening of the legislation aimed at independent schools that do not deliver quality. But to strike with legislation against independent schools that actually deliver quality and where hundreds of thousands of students today attend and experience that they have a good and fine school, I believe is to overreach.

We must become better at valuing quality in the Swedish school system, and we must be tougher on those who actually do not behave. There is also one local school or another in Sweden that does not deliver high quality, and we must ensure that even those schools are given the conditions to do so. I believe that equivalence and some form of national school funding is absolutely crucial for this. But to completely knock the legs out from under schools that run school activities that work well—where the students achieve the goals and where the students actually enjoy themselves—I think is to go a bit over the top.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Linus Sköld (S)

Madam Speaker! The Minister for Education began the response by saying that the most difficult challenges are equality and that students do not reach the passing grade and thus do not move forward and become eligible for a upper secondary school program. I can actually agree in both cases, but the problem is that the Minister for Education and I have slightly different starting points regarding what it is that creates the problems.

I note, Madam Speaker, that the Minister for Education notoriously refuses to answer my questions. They were very simple and very direct.

The first question was: Is profit distribution school activity, or should school funds that are disposed of to be distributed as profit be able to be called back?

The second question was: How much profit is one allowed to take out if one operates a transport program where the students do not receive a driver's license? One is allowed to take out a limited profit, the Tidö Agreement has said. How much is reasonable then? Some profit must be allowed to be taken out, obviously.

When we are now talking about profits, I thought I would bring up another aspect, or a slightly different "take", on the profits of the school companies. The Liberals were involved in developing the current school law; it was Jan Björklund who was the school minister. School Minister Björklund introduced the beautiful portal paragraph in the school law which reads as follows: "All children and pupils in all school forms and the after-school center shall be given the guidance and stimulation they need in their learning and their personal development so that, based on their own circumstances, they can develop as far as possible according to the goals of the education."

"As far as possible," it says. Every krona that disappears into profit, regardless of how well the students enjoy the school that the Minister for Education is talking about, is a krona that instead could have gone towards supporting a student in reaching further in their learning. This mission does not cease because the student has an A. Not even if all students have an A in all subjects has one done enough, because one must reach further – "as far as possible" has no stop.

Profit is therefore completely incompatible with this portal paragraph. The Liberals have drafted the school law, which is obviously incompatible with school owners taking out profit. Now, agreements have been reached to protect the possibility of taking out profit, and in that case, the portal paragraph must be changed. It might instead need to read "students shall receive the guidance and stimulation that the money suffices for after the shareholders have received the profit they want," or something along those lines.

The question Lotta Edholm needs to answer is, therefore, whether she is prepared to make changes to her own portal paragraph in order to protect the school companies' profits.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Camilla Hansén (MP)

Madam Speaker! I thank the Minister for the answers so far. It is good to get answers to questions, even those that one has not asked.

I have, however, repeatedly asked the Minister for Education how she views the mandate from the Swedish people. I know that many appreciate the school that their children attend and that it is usually not the most important thing in what way it is organized, but what I am referring to are the opinion figures regarding the issue of profit. I think it is an important part of the legitimacy for the government's policy to know how to approach that.

This may be a matter of wording, Madam Speaker, but I am not interested in differences in quality between independent schools and municipal schools, but there should be good quality in all schools regardless of the form of operation. Therefore, all schools, regardless of the form of operation, need to be given the conditions for it.

What worries me a bit is the differences between large school corporations that can provide a lot of support and small schools that do not have that possibility. Large control instruments will be required because it is necessary to maintain the profit possibilities, and for me, that becomes incompatible with the work of reducing the administration for teachers. It will be all teachers who need to be controlled and measured regarding what they do - whether they have done enough, how we are to defend grade differences and similar issues.

The control that will become necessary if one now necessarily wants to maintain a market school, I believe, will become a burden for the teachers. What I see underlying that is that a kind of mistrust is being directed towards the teaching staff if they are to be scrutinized in detail all the time.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Statsrådet Lotta Edholm (L)

Madam Speaker! I can answer very directly to Camilla Hansen's question about opinion polls: No, I do not think that opinion polls should govern politics in all matters. I believe that it would be life-threatening. Furthermore, if I may possibly add this: Camilla and I belong to parties that are quite small, and I think we should be glad that it is not always opinion polls that lead our parties in their positions. I actually believe that it is other values that must form the basis for them. A political party should not be a weather vane, but one must start from its fundamental values.

For me, the fundamental values when it comes to independent schools are to ensure that the quality is good in all schools regardless of the form of operation, that is, regardless of whether they are municipal or independent. Schools that do not deliver quality should naturally not be able to take any profit, and that is what we will now put forward proposals for. We will appoint an inquiry to actually tighten the legislation in such a way that, for example, the Socialdemokraterna and Miljöpartiet have not succeeded in doing during all these years.

So, tightenings are needed - I am the first to say it - but we must not throw the baby out with the bathwater in this issue. We must not leave hundreds of thousands of children high and dry, or a school place, just to set an example, and we must not conduct a witch hunt against schools that actually deliver good quality for their students.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Linus Sköld (S)

Madam Speaker! I note that I have once again not received an answer to any of my questions. I think it is worth repeating the question: Is Lotta Edholm prepared to make changes to her own portal paragraph in order to protect the school companies' profits?

I intended to raise another important issue addressed in the interpellation, namely the question of public and media transparency. We are talking about tax-funded school activities, and transparency must, of course, be ensured regardless of who is the principal of the school.

I quote again: "The school is owned by the Swedish people. Furthermore, the exercise of authority takes place within it. That means that the tasks must, of course, be public. That is no longer the case, because we have let in private capital and business thinking in the school system, is insane." This was said by Håkan Wiclander, chairman of Idéburna skolors riksförbund, to the newspaper Skolvärlden in 2020.

The national association of Idéburna schools therefore considers it to be obvious that tax-funded schools should be covered by the principle of public access. The argument that it would burden small school units therefore fails, as their members very often are small school units.

The real reason why the right does not want public scrutiny in independent schools is probably that the limited companies do not want it and see it as an attack on free enterprise. Have you heard anything so crazy? Free enterprise does not take precedence over the citizens' legitimate demands for insight into activities that are entirely financed by tax money.

Every penny that exists in the independent schools is tax money. They exercise authority in place of authorities, and they are already paid for the administration that record-keeping would entail. Why does the Minister for Education not want them to be covered by the principle of public access?

The Minister for Education has himself had deep insight into a school group and actually both owned and managed it as recently as a few weeks ago. What secrets do the school groups have that the Minister for Education wants to continue to hide?

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)

Statsrådet Lotta Edholm (L)

Madam Speaker! I believe there are arguments against having a principle of public access that is a carbon copy of what applies to the public sector. One such important reason is that one must very quickly release all documents that are judged to be covered by the principle of public access and are public documents. This means that at a school with perhaps 50 pupils, there must be staff who can quickly assess whether the documents are covered by secrecy or not. Should they be released immediately, or must one wait?

I believe that this would lead to an immense bureaucracy. I also believe that there is actually a quite large risk of mistakes in such a process, just as mistakes were made today in the public sector. There, however, one perhaps has an entire corps of lawyers behind them who can determine what is right and wrong.

My entry point into this issue is quality in schools. We will appoint an investigation that will be tasked with producing proposals that, in essence, actually go in Linus Sköld's direction. There is only one exception: We do not want to prohibit profit in every individual case. It must be the schools' quality that is decisive for whether they receive school funding or not. The ownership review must also become better than it is today.

There are plenty of measures that can be taken that do not involve turning your back on hundreds of thousands of students in Sweden.

The interpellations debate was hereby concluded.

The speech at riksdagen.se, in Swedish (opens in a new tab)